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| Ninja~ |
  Posted 17th Oct 2005 5:18am |
L4Y Member
Post 19 / 644
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| Quoting Trigger | | Quote | | f you plan to use a mod, add it separately and design the map(s) as though they were meant to be played with and without the mod. |
What is the point of an SP mission without HUD messages, or at least endgame text? |
The point of it, would be exactly that. (an SP mission without those features) |
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| RED-FROG |
Posted 17th Oct 2005 6:21am |  |
L4Y Resident
Post 638 / 5258
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| Quoting Vidi44 | | I could donate my WeaponsRack group that I made (it would be ideal for starting all the SP maps, as you'd have all weapons available, and if a mapper didn't want that, they could use a strip-weapons event and have the player run over a pistol). |
Ooh I didnt think of that.
Right, after a level switch the weapons from the previous level will remain.
And yup, that'll do it 
(Or a give_item_to_player event (which doesn't seem to work properly, usually I get the weapon but only 2 bullets or so, then you may have to add an additional event which gives you the ammo) |
| ¤ MARS WARS 3! - Red Faction revamped on the unreal engine. Superiority ¤ |
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| Trigger |
Posted 17th Oct 2005 11:20pm |
L4Y Member
Post 207 / 385
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| Quoting Ninja | | The point of it, would be exactly that. |
Yikes, I didn't even get to the good stuff. These maps will be boring.  |
| If I ever get to where I am going, will I know when I am there? |
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| goober |
Posted 17th Oct 2005 11:24pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 699 / 265
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this is acually a very good idea, but Vidi without these fetures the maps will suck, just because your on dial up and dont want to download the big pack meens that evrryone elses maps should suck? i meen your the creater of the thing, im sure youll have all the maps individually eventually anyway, i wont participate in this if you cant use mods, or tables... |
For anyone reading this in 2019 or later: The RF community is alive on the Community Discord
[Faction Files] |
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| Vidi44 |
Posted 18th Oct 2005 1:15am |
L4Y Member
Post 366 / 668
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I don't include HUD messages or anything like that (if you need the space, cut the sound out, we can read!). By mods, I meant stuff like HUD mods and other things. Such as weapons enhancements, HUD mods, other things. By my definition, this is actually a very reasonable demand, as my definition of "mod" enables you to do a lot. All that my definition stops you from doing is having the characters use different voices for their events (yes, such a problem, as half the time no one listens to what they AI is saying when they're running away).
Yes, this is somewhat of a strange request, as if you make the map with a certain character's saying, they'll not say it, which is why I said "make it like it is to be played with or without the mod". Actually, for the most part, do you need a mod (by my definition). Usually if a character has something important to say, they would use a HUD message to say it. This also works in the case of the original SP game (in the geothermal plant, with the engineer at the main station, by the exit), as what he said wasn't overly important and could have been said in a HUD message.
Summary: HUD messages are allowed, as are endgame text. All else can be put in, so long as it isn't something that modifies the player's actions. So, basically, as my definition of "not a mod" includes what has been listed here, you can do it. Just no HUD mods or special effects, weapons mods, etc. As these represent 1/10 of what everyone considers a mod, you're left with 90% of the available use of "mods". If you're in doubt, PM me, or hide it in your VPP so well that no one will notice it. These VPPs are meant to be self-sufficient, which is basically what I was trying to say by "no mods". I also hope you read the rules again, as I added the Maps must be named "SPMC" and map name. This rule was listed in other listings of the rules, so I didn't add anything to it. Also, this rule is easy to fix if you didn't save your map like that.
Sorry for the long summary. As creator of this, I'm not guaranteed to have all the maps. As I said before, judging will be held by those not affiliated with the project (ie, someone who didn't map for this project or review the map beforehand). A recap of judging:
Independant judges (again, someone who didn't map for this), 5 of them (maybe 7 if we can get it, or 3 if we have to), will score the map on multiple categories (brushwork, texturing, AI use, event use, overall gameplay, story, and flow of game (does each level make sense as part of the pack, yet is independant of the rest? Any map that is only one map will not be judged in this category)). The scorings will be out of 10, for maximum flexibility (no .5 scores. If the judge thinks a map might get half a point, a full point shall be awarded, as the mapper did do all that work), and there will be an automatic 30 points awarded to each entry (so as to even the score to 100).
If PC doesn't have anything big happening in my sector today, I can throw together a CDC on rules and judging.
For RedFrog: what the WeaponsRack would be used for is for the Lobby. The mappers can throw in a "strip weapons" event if they don't want the player to have all the weapons. Also, we can have the Lobby as sort of a recovery level. After every pack, the player returns to the Lobby to refill on health and weapons. Of course, to do that, you'd have to edit all the maps' end game events, so we could just go with the idea that the player picks just one level for each time they run the VPP. Might make the player angry, having to reload the VPP each time they beat it, but would make your job easier.
Any mapper want my group? It's just a 3 kb file (somewhere around there) and would be useful for any mapper who wants the player to be in melee combat instantly (so they don't need to place all these weapons all over the place). Perhaps I should work on some more groups (I currently have an idea for a "weapons closet", where the player opens the top to get envirosuits and health, as well as big guns, and the bototm drawer to get pistols and ammo. If you've ever played "007: The World Is Not Enough" on N64, you'd find something similar in the bank level (the first one) on the top floor), as they'd benefit all in a more flexible way.
Final Summary: HUD messages and end game texts are allowed, as well as pretty much anything that doesn't affect the player or AI directly (such as HUD mods, skin mods and weapons mods). Speach in AI is allowed, although not recommended (who pays attention to it?). All maps must start with "SPMC" and some sort of separator (- or _). Judging is done from independant judges and is based on a 100 score in 7 categories (30 points automatically for entering), which will be based out of 10. I have my weapons rack group to donate if you'd like it, save you some time instead of placing weapons all over the place. If we go with RF's idea on the Lobby, you'll have to make the decision to strip your player's weapons at the start of the level. |
"Don't go there. It's ugly, and it never stops being ugly."
"Naps are good" - Visual C++.NET for Dummies, page 1 |
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| Predalienator_ |
Posted 18th Oct 2005 3:24pm |
L4Y Member
Post 118 / 1532
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Vidi i think i should be disqualified for awhile since i cant even use RED or RF anymore.I,ll give all my ideas and whats left of my mapping skills to you |
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| Trigger |
Posted 18th Oct 2005 11:49pm |
L4Y Member
Post 209 / 385
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Why are there so many restrictions? Instead of making a good SP mission people will have to try and work within your "demands".
I demand someone else take this over and let us go for our lives!
Maybe redtech will host it's own SP mission contest with no restrictions and prizes [YES! PRIZES!].
Feedback on NO RESTRICTIONS and PRIZES appreciated. I really don't care for the opinion of just one person who is a communist. What does the community want?
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| If I ever get to where I am going, will I know when I am there? |
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| DVL_IAC |
Posted 19th Oct 2005 12:00am | |
L4Y Member
Post 545 / 1417
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| Quoting Trigger |
Feedback on NO RESTRICTIONS and PRIZES appreciated. I really don't care for the opinion of just one person who is a communist. What does the community want?
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That would be cool! I might make a SP mission if you did that.  |
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| goober |
Posted 19th Oct 2005 12:16am | |
L4Y Member
Post 703 / 265
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ill make one if the prize is one billion dollars
$$
~~
^^
$)
hehe what would the prizes be? like free redtech email adress or webpage hosting? or upload space?
or maby a trip to floridia? |
For anyone reading this in 2019 or later: The RF community is alive on the Community Discord
[Faction Files] |
Modified Oct 19th, 12:17am by goober |
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| S1lenT_x |
Posted 19th Oct 2005 9:00am |
L4Y Member
Post 6 / 20
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I vote "a trip to Florida"!
I think Vidi's rules are pretty good. They were far too harsh at first, but he's softened them up a lot! The file-size rule might be a bit over-the-top, but hey, i'm not complaining. It also set's a skill range. Mappers who aren't quite as good or as fast as the other maps need not fear being conquered in the contest by experienced mappers who submit mammoth levels.
Anyways, as long as this thing doesn't get called off completely for some reason, i don't really care. Rules or no rules, prize or no prize, it should just be a bit of good honest fun! 
Unfortunately i have run out of time to finish my maps as i live in Australia and SACS, Exams and homework have taken over my life! I hate year 11.
I guess i'll just have to upload them as they are. Oh well. |
Join the "Official" RF Single-Player-Mapping-Competition!
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| Ninja~ |
Posted 19th Oct 2005 11:30am |
L4Y Member
Post 24 / 644
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Whatever can get more good maps released to the public is what i wanna see.. its too bad there arent many ctf mappers |
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| Predalienator_ |
Posted 19th Oct 2005 1:04pm |
L4Y Member
Post 131 / 1532
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I think many peeps will like my idea.
SPMC 2K5 should be divided into 2 groups
Group A:Veteran mappers with a lot of experience in RED.No file size restriction.
Group B:New mappers that just want to make single player maps and show them to the community or any other stuff.File size limit: 2.5 mb,s
Then the winner ,runner up , third place to number 10 represent group A's First part of the map pack.
Same for group B too.
Then someone will have to combine the best 10 maps out of those 2 groups and put it in the last part of the map pack.
Does anyone like my idea? Although this is Vidi's idea (SPMC 2K5) so i'm saying thats my suggestion only. |
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| Trigger |
Posted 19th Oct 2005 11:06pm |
L4Y Member
Post 211 / 385
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| Quoting goober | | or maby a trip to floridia? |
I need that.  I can offer a subdomain: yourname.rededitor.net and some space.
It is. 
| Quoting Predalienator_ | | divided into 2 groups |
Who wants to be known as a B grade mapper?
I just wanted to get the restrictions lifted. The old L4Y mapping competition had good guide lines. Personally, I think this one is taking things a bit too far.
btw, happy belated birthday wishes S1lenT_x. |
| If I ever get to where I am going, will I know when I am there? |
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| Vidi44 |
Posted 21st Oct 2005 11:51pm |
L4Y Member
Post 380 / 668
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S1lent_X: the SPMC does not finish until 1 December, 2005. As such, you still have another month to work on your map(s).
Also, the point of the file restriction is as X mentioned: skilled mappers have a tendency to place either waste or excessive items in their maps. I've seen many a map that wasn't worth the huge size it was. Because custom textures made up a lot of that excess size, they were originally banned. Then, because of the pleads of others, I decided to lift that restriction.
Still, there remains the fact that veteran mappers don't work well with their sizes. Also, the limit is helpful for those who simply want to map. Their creations won't be overshadowed by flashy vet maps because the vets will have to play at their level. As such, this makes it very fair for all.
The other restrictions derived from the ideas behind the file restrictions. A lot of a map is wasted on features that the player most likely won't notice, or won't appreciate. If they don't care, why put it in? The file limit forced you to make that decision, to keep the frivolty (despite the fact that it probably won't be appreciated) or take it out for a smaller file?
There is a prize for winning the SPMC: pride in being the best SP mapper, the glory of winning, the fun of mapping to test your skills, and the eternal gratitude of the SP community. If you want a more material prize, I suppose I could find something, but it's going to have to be a free POS prize, nothing good (no funds = no fun). It'll probably be something like free Groups from me, a sneak peak at HIC Revised, a sneak peak at my Checkmate_Geo-standard, and other whatnot that I could think of (hmm, maybe a sneak peak at PC:CE whenever I get it to do something (VB WME is really argging me off. Anyone with broadband want to download the 140 MB SDK from MS?)).
Why should you do it for a prize? Realize that in real life, if someone asks you to do something, you should do it. You wouldn't tell your boss "Go <censored>yourself, you <censored>. I don't feel like it". Not only would you be fired, you could be brought on charges (slander, etc). Also, even if they weren't your boss, you want to be seen as a nice person (that way when you rule the world, people will think you'll be nice to them). Even if you don't want to seem nice, you still should be nice. Realize that a lot of your life is determined by others. If you help someone, they might be able to help you later. If they can't, they might know someone who can help you.
Why would you want to go to Florida? Wilma is about to kill half of it.
Pred's idea is actually a very good one. If veteran mappers don't want the restriction, they can opt to be part of the group "A". However, in doing so, they have harder rules (not much harder, they just have to survive a slightly tougher scoring regimen. Basically the only change is that everything is more important, and the 30 bonus points are gone. The score will be out of 70 and the judges will be told to decrease points if there is a doubt on whether or not to award a point). As they'd have their own group, they'd be separate from the "noob" mappers in scoring.
While I mull over this for a while, you can post your ideas to influence me. The only options you'll have will be to keep the rules the same, or to separate the two groups. The reason for this is because why should I change the rules everytime you disagree? I'm not going to hold your hand while you map. This is a competition ! This means that you have to have rules and regulations to ensure fairness (right now, there's really only 3 main rules: 2.5MB size, must start with SPMC (and separator character "_" or "-"), and must not have game modifications (flying, matrix effects, etc). The rest are really small rules that anyone should be able to adide by). If I lifted the rules, how would this be different from other maps, aside from name only?
If you really keep complaining, you won't get your way. This is like talking to two year olds! The file restriction is only for if you don't want points off. Even then, you only one point for every 1MB over, and that's out of your bonus points! Theoretically, you can map until your file is 30.5 MB and (if your map was very very good) could still stand a reasonable chance of placing, if not winning. Keep in mind that the limit is for COMPRESSED!!!! , meaning that so long as you can compress it small enough, your VPP can be as big as you want. Using my reasoning of "max RAR = 1/5 of original", you can map up to 20MB in your VPP. If you also couple the loss of the bonus points, that means that your map can be 170MB (if your compression ratio remains at 1/5). It has always been my experience that WinRAR will offer you somewhere around 1/4 or 1/5 of original size when compressed under optimum methods (if you don't know it, I can send you instructions on getting optimum compression).
Think of that: if you ignored the file limit rule and broke through your bonus points, used optimum compression, and did a lot of praying (that Garner'd let such a huge file on the SP page), you could make a (theoretical) 170MB file! Now, who couldn't work in that range? I don't even think the orignal SP game was 170MB (I think it was 200MB, which goes to show that if you use defaults, you can go very far). So, unless you're making a new version of SP RF, you don't need that big a file. I'd doubt if RED will even process any pack that big (you'd certainly spend a lot of time messing around with portals and level loads to get it to work).
Also to Pred: there's only 5 mappers (including you), so unless everyone submitted two maps, there couldn't be the "best 10 maps".
Summary: The rules stand unless you'd want to adopt the "two parts" idea of Pred's. Also, remember that you can dip into your bonus points (if you're in "noob group" (if we went with Pred's idea)) and used maximum compression: you can make a file that is theoretically almost as big as the total RF SP story (which is 195 M . Even if you didn't use optimum compression, and just used your bonus points, you could make a map 30.5MB big and still not be affected by regular scoring (although technically it would ruin your score, as everyone else would have the bonus points). Now, whether or not someone would download a 195MB map would affect your creations, and you must realize that dialup still exists, and I'm not the only one complaining about it (I'm just the loudest). The idea of the limits was to create a fair playing field for beginnner and veteran alike. If you want to destroy it, do it at your own expense: cut into your bonus and take it like a miner (like Parker ) instead of the measly guards you're making yourselves out to be. |
"Don't go there. It's ugly, and it never stops being ugly."
"Naps are good" - Visual C++.NET for Dummies, page 1 |
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| Trigger |
Posted 22nd Oct 2005 4:55pm |
L4Y Member
Post 219 / 385
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| Quoting Vidi44 | | instead of the measly guards you're making yourselves out to be. |
You're the only one guarding anything. I am revolting against the dictatorship.
| Quoting Vidi44 | | Realize that in real life, if someone asks you to do something, you should do it..... Realize that a lot of your life is determined by others.... |
LMFAO!!! You have a warped sense of the real world (and I suspect very little experience in it). In real life you get payed by the hour to do what you are told. Besides being reliant on other people to get through life is nothing but a cop out. Grow up and stand on your own two feet. 10 years ago I was living on the street (I'm not looking for sympathy, but rather trying to prove a point) - I got to here off my own back - not by the help of others - but through hard work and dedication. You yourself have the power to determine your own life, it is not determined by those around you. Don't be a slave to the man, he will only f||ck you up the a-hole.
If your advice is so full of wisdom, than try taking some of it. I have offered a subdomain and space .... 
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| If I ever get to where I am going, will I know when I am there? |
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