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| Red Faction : [RED] Editing : Moving glass. |
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| goober |
  Posted 23rd Jul 2005 9:29pm |  |
L4Y Member
Post 164 / 265
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| Quoting Beatonator | Not without Modding, or overwriting a "hidden" object. an object that has details but is missing a Mesh and therefore, unselectable. So you just add the mesh, as I did here.
the Pot plant was an example.  |
is there any way that you can make a movable glass in MAX and export it, or make it into a cluttar object, that doesnt speuw blood  |
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| RED-FROG |
Posted 23rd Jul 2005 11:19pm | |
L4Y Resident
Post 495 / 5258
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Haven't you read that whole thread or why are you asking that?
It has been expained how and that you can do it.
Of course you can make a glass that doesn't spawn blood when hit.
It was just a bad idea to use glass object that overwrites a flesh object 
With this technique you are able to create doors with windows, or elevators with a 32bit grating texture that move in keyframe groups without losing their transparency. |
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| goober |
Posted 23rd Jul 2005 11:30pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 166 / 265
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| Quoting REDFROG | Haven't you read that whole thread or why are you asking that?
It has been expained how and that you can do it.
Of course you can make a glass that doesn't spawn blood when hit.
It was just a bad idea to use glass object that overwrites a flesh object
With this technique you are able to create doors with windows, or elevators with a 32bit grating texture that move in keyframe groups without losing their transparency. |
but i dont know how to use the technique |
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| RED-FROG |
Posted 23rd Jul 2005 11:52pm | |
L4Y Resident
Post 496 / 5258
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You make a mesh in 3ds max, export it and name to a clutter object that is not used by the game.
Open RED and a unmodifed clutters.tbl then pick a category like "Furniture"
Now look at the first name in the clutters.tbl of the Furniture list.
For Example (that all isn't 100% correctly, I don't have RED on this computer to check it)
Name: Sofa
Mesh name: bla.v3d
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RFL type "Furniture
Now check if "Sofa" got listened in the RED in this category
If not, the mesh bla.v3d must be missing, so check the meshes.vpp and search for it.
It's not there, now that you know that, you can name your previousily created mesh to "bla.v3m"
Now create a mod folder and create a vpp file with bla.v3m included.
Run RED with that mod, the perviousily missing clutter object "Sofa" will now be listened.
I think it should always work to put the mesh in your ui.vpp and then run RED. I did not think of that when I was working with it.
Try the ui.vpp modification trick first. If you save maps with an active mod on RED you'll have to use that mod in Red Faction, too. I've been using Groups to cheat that.
sorry I'm too bad in explaining things..and it makes it even harder to me to explain things that I cannot see at the same time  |
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Modified Jul 23rd, 11:59pm by RED-FROG |
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| adambehrend |
Posted 24th Jul 2005 12:27am |
L4Y Member
Post 6 / 97
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Moving transparent brushes is a revolutionary discovery and could be very useful in creating some highly detailed maps..
There is 4 pages of random discussion about how to do it, and the bugs.. but if someone could repeat everything concerning the object replacement and weather you have to mod to achieve this.. obviously you dont because Beatonators map worked fine on RF.
Incase this confuses some people.. what im asking is for someone to say.. do you need to overwrite existing clutter? or can you add more?
thats what im basically trying to say, but its a bit hard with a topic such as this.. when nothing is certain. |
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| Dorling |
Posted 24th Jul 2005 12:06pm |
L4Y Member
Post 68 / 97
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Ah, I like this alot. Again the community pushes the possibilities of mapping further, excellent. There are a few queries cercerning aspects of it however. Can you change the texture by yourself without having to invervine with the whole 3DS max process? Would we need to create new glass in order to have the choice of a different texture? Another thing. When you made the map did you see the object as glass in the editor, or the thing you replaced it with? When that's the case it makes it difficult th align the glass unless you designate a 0,0 value as its center. It seems you've been able to map the glass micely to the moving object but I'm not sure about the others.  |
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| goober |
Posted 24th Jul 2005 12:37pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 172 / 265
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| Quoting Dorling | | Ah, I like this alot. Again the community pushes the possibilities of mapping further, excellent. There are a few queries cercerning aspects of it however. Can you change the texture by yourself without having to invervine with the whole 3DS max process? Would we need to create new glass in order to have the choice of a different texture? Another thing. When you made the map did you see the object as glass in the editor, or the thing you replaced it with? When that's the case it makes it difficult th align the glass unless you designate a 0,0 value as its center. It seems you've been able to map the glass micely to the moving object but I'm not sure about the others. |
thecluttar he used isnt available in RED therefor he made tthe mesh so it shows up at glass in editor |
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| Dorling |
Posted 24th Jul 2005 8:02pm |
L4Y Member
Post 75 / 97
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| Quoting goober | | thecluttar he used isnt available in RED therefor he made tthe mesh so it shows up at glass in editor |
I understand that much, all I was asking is if it's possible to make more of them so you're given a wider choice of sizes and textures, that's providing there's enough inadequate objects that can be replaced. |
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| RED-FROG |
Posted 24th Jul 2005 9:25pm | |
L4Y Resident
Post 498 / 5258
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| Quote | | Moving transparent brushes is a revolutionary discovery and could be very useful in creating some highly detailed maps.. |
To be honest, it is not that new.
And you get the most advantage of this trick only by using mods with it.
Everyone is trying to keep his discoveries as secret as the NASA until they release what they've done.  |
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Beatonator  |
Posted 25th Jul 2005 9:04am |
Post 636 / 3716
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Me and Kiliad had worked along with this for a long time but it was one of our many ideas/experiments that got pushed to the back after the intial Success.
I did try another Glass texture, however that was so transparent you couldn't even see it really. 
to change the Texture you need to do it in 3Ds Max. It appears in RED as the clutter you replaced. My one is a Medical Patient I believe. They had Medical Patient 2 but not Patient 1 (something like that) Hence the blood.
The first one I did had No colliding so you walked straight through the glass.  You can have as many as there are gaps, however might I suggest we host a Table file with all the spaces left and when a mapper wishes to use a Space they email the Table creator to occupy a Space. Sort of a way to stop overwriting. But there are only limited spaces so it might not be feasable.  |
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>Link< (or head over to RFrun.net's comment section!) |
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| Dorling |
Posted 25th Jul 2005 9:42am |
L4Y Member
Post 76 / 97
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That's a downer. I guess many will have to suffer with a limited selection of moving glass. The extent in which it'll be used is not certain however. Few people could make use for it so there's no need to keep making new ones. I guess we can live with that.
With the overwriting issue, there's not a lot of modellers that are able to create objects. I could see it a problem when every mapper has attained a copy of the software to add endless customizations to their maps. |
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| RED-FROG |
Posted 25th Jul 2005 9:44pm | |
L4Y Resident
Post 501 / 5258
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I was also thinking about something like a online list with all missing clutters wrote down. Then mappers could easierly take a look at it which clutter hasn't been used yet.
But there aren't enough clutter objects anyway. And that transparent glass in keyframes isn't that important.
People will use clutters which have already been overwritten anyway..so maps will probably not work properly.
My upcoming map uses 19 or 20 meshes, oops. It uses all missing misc clutters. Lets see what happens if other people are going to use them, but as Dorling said: "there's not a lot of modellers that are able to create objects"
We should pick a type of clutter objects, search for their missing meshes and then replace them all with different glass planes with different sizes and perhaps shapes.
The texture of that mesh is NO problem at all. It can be changed by the mapper with an event called "Swap Texture" or something like that.
The question is, what sizes are useful?
2x2
1.5x1.5
1x1
0.5x0.5
Then, when the planes have been made we could upload them as a master group pack to L4Y, one pack that can be used by everybody. Beatonator was talking about some problems with collisions etc.
It is possible to fix that with an invisible collision brush that blocks players n weapons, which is surrounding the mesh.
what you think of it? |
| ¤ MARS WARS 3! - Red Faction revamped on the unreal engine. Superiority ¤ |
Modified Jul 25th, 09:45pm by RED-FROG |
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| goober |
Posted 25th Jul 2005 9:55pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 178 / 265
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the biggest problem i see with this is the blood, if it could sound like glass, or even plastic or rock it would be good |
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| NotRED-FROG |
Posted 25th Jul 2005 10:00pm |
L4Y Member
Post 37 / 119
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gosh, as I said before
| Quoting me | Of course you can make a glass that doesn't spawn blood when hit.
It was just a bad idea to use glass object that overwrites a flesh object |
NO BLOOD ON GLASS
Even if the mesh WOULD spawn blood you can cheat it so it's no more doing it.
(glass is the best material type for meshes since you can only block bullets by invisible glass textures. If the mesh was made of metal and a bullet hits the collision box it sounds like it was made of glass..)
So what is needed to be in the groups pack?
Just planes? What else? There shouldn't be missing anything because once it's there, it should not be modified to keep the maps compatible with it.
For now, the texture is not interesting at all, only the shape.
Well, with a 0.5x0.5m or 0.25x0.25 plane almost everything is possible to do..just copy n paste these guys and do some patch/puzzle work.
got to sleep now, will take a look on this tomorrow again. |
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| RED-FROG |
Posted 11th Sep 2005 11:01pm | |
L4Y Resident
Post 552 / 5258
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Unforunately it is not possible to see other objects or entity through (behind) the glass meshes..
Tested it today..finally.
Another stupid limitation in this weak engine. |
| ¤ MARS WARS 3! - Red Faction revamped on the unreal engine. Superiority ¤ |
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