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| RED-FROG |
  Posted 16th Sep 2007 7:53pm |  |
L4Y Resident
Post 1905 / 5258
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You are going way too far with all your cheating programs and aimbot stuff. A half year ago I didn't hear anything of it. Now its all there. Aimbots, wallhacks, server hacks.
UT2004 has a different netcode which makes the game safer.
You cant shoot as fast as you want, cant have much as ammo as you want, cant move as fast as you want, because all this data is being replicated and requested by the server first. |
| ¤ MARS WARS 3! - Red Faction revamped on the unreal engine. Superiority ¤ |
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| Molodiets |
Posted 16th Sep 2007 7:57pm |
L4Y Member
Post 1576 / 2687
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| Quoting digital_ruler | So you're pretty much saying that cheating is OK, as long as it's not big cheating. Hmmm.   |
Yes, of course if it doesn't spoill the game and if you're not in a serious competition.
Ottherwise you'll have to say that having a lower ping is an unaceptable advantage.
Your ping is lower than mine so you cheats. It's just as simple. If the bot doesn't give you a bigger advantage than the acceptable one, it doesn't matter!
Still UT2004 is globaly safer thanks to anti-TCC |
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| Molodiets |
Posted 16th Sep 2007 8:05pm |
L4Y Member
Post 1577 / 2687
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| Quoting rawrzz | | Quoting REDFROG | You are going way too far with all your cheating programs and aimbot stuff. A half year ago I didn't hear anything of it. Now its all there. Aimbots, wallhacks, server hacks.
UT2004 has a different netcode which makes the game safer.
You cant shoot as fast as you want, cant have much as ammo as you want, cant move as fast as you want, because all this data is being replicated and requested by the server first. |
UT2004's different netcode also makes the game nearly unplayable with >90 ping. Say bye bye to any RF audience you're looking to draw in, unless you adapt UTComp's anti-lag. |
That's true. You can play RF with a 56k. You can't decently play UT2004 on dial up with a low end computer. That's probably the only reason why you can still find RF players.
56k anyone? People on 56k shouldn't even buy UT 2004 and should carry on playing solitaire |
| spoilsport |
Modified Sep 16th, 08:06pm by Molodiets |
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| Molodiets |
Posted 16th Sep 2007 8:14pm |
L4Y Member
Post 1578 / 2687
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There is something else we haven't talked about. The inability to push an anti-cheat program from server to client in RF compells to use the Rcon Holder policy on RF servers.
Rcon holders are the worst scourge. A bunch of power craving tyrants that will kick you on a assumption of cheating (or just use cheating as an excuse to ban you).
On anti-TCC running UT2004 servers, it's harder to ban someone using the excuse he is cheating. Anti-TCC bans cheaters without any intervention of a Rcon Holder (even thou Rcon holders exists on a few unprotected, cheater-unsafe, UT2004 servers). |
| spoilsport |
Modified Sep 16th, 08:47pm by Molodiets |
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| RED-FROG |
Posted 16th Sep 2007 8:20pm | |
L4Y Resident
Post 1906 / 5258
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When you lag in RF you have high advantages. And this is absolutely no joke.
lol digital ruler yesterday lag-cheated around. It was horrible. He only needed to push a button to do it or something. It was forcing package loss on his side, whilst he didn't feel the lag at all and could continue playing.
And I've seen it many times in other servers.
I've also seen the big L4Y people claiming about people killed them before they even came to see them. When you die you notice they just started shooting.
This might also be a cheat..I don't remember this bug years ago.
The server does not correct your positions and does not care about your weapons hence the simple netcode.
When you lag in UT2004 the server wont allow you to do anything because your actions depend on the servers permission and not on the clients only, so with high lag those permissions will take a while to performed and you will feel your weapons fire delay. |
| ¤ MARS WARS 3! - Red Faction revamped on the unreal engine. Superiority ¤ |
Modified Sep 16th, 08:22pm by RED-FROG |
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Assman15  |
Posted 16th Sep 2007 8:50pm | |
Post 630 / 2085
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| Quoting goober | | By the way REDFROG - It's exceptionally easy to edit the velocity of a MP. |
Not using the tools Volition provided for modding RF. Singleplayer, yes; multiplayer, no.
Edit: Didn't notice the thread was 4 pages long, guess I'm a bit late.  |
| My YouTube |
Modified Sep 16th, 08:54pm by Assman15 |
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| RED-FROG |
Posted 16th Sep 2007 8:59pm | |
L4Y Resident
Post 1907 / 5258
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Correct Assman.
And digital_ruler I said it's not possible for the server to CORRECT the players positions.
By that I mean, if a player was too fast on client side because of a lag or cheat the server will send a correction of the actual position that is calculated on the server side. This is the reason why UT pushes you back again when u walk while you lag but this doesn happen in RF.
With the weapons I was meaning that the server does not care about the fire state of your weapon. You can fire whenever you want, a fire command needs no permission by the server. You can glitch, you can fire as fast as you want, even when the FIRERATE is SET by the server. The DAMAGE is also set by the server and clients are not able to change it.
Clients only send "HEY I HIT HIM" and the server does the damage. No matter if the weapon fired too fast or not, and no matter if the player was on a totally different position on the server side.. it counts what you hit on clientside which is good, but sometimes annyoing for the others that are actually behind corners.
In UT it also counts what you hit on client side. But the information of the players is much more precise in UT2004. Other players cannot lag so much u can be hit behind walls... |
| ¤ MARS WARS 3! - Red Faction revamped on the unreal engine. Superiority ¤ |
Modified Sep 16th, 09:03pm by RED-FROG |
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| RED-FROG |
Posted 16th Sep 2007 9:39pm | |
L4Y Resident
Post 1908 / 5258
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thats what I said.
I did not say that its not possible to change those things. I'm talking about how Red Faction works. Could you read more carefully.
Have you tryed to make such a program? Sounds interneresting.
The firerate and damage thing is jsut an example how 1 of the two values are not checked by the server at all. (firerrate)
And now imagine how stupid the netcode would have been if you were able to change the damage clientside as well  |
| ¤ MARS WARS 3! - Red Faction revamped on the unreal engine. Superiority ¤ |
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| Spikey2005 |
Posted 16th Sep 2007 10:44pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 846 / 2126
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From all the stuff I have read on this topic, I am absolutly disapointed in you all.
First off, All of you happen to be arguing about weather this new GunGame server is classed as cheating.
My opinion: Can we not all accept that something new and great has been brought to Red Faction for us to enjoy more. Mappers make maps, and we accept their maps if their good maps, but do we say to a mapper ever that his map is rubbish? No we Do not. We try to encourage them to do better.
Secondly, About these other games with Anti-Cheat systems.
Back in the days of Red Faction, It was not easy or possible to make a anti-cheat system because no one ever thought of it in Red Faction. There was the 1.03 patch which was "Suppose" to be anti-moddable, but that still did not work. It happened anyways.
I cannot see why all you folks are arguing over something that works great and is a lot of fun.
Its great to see new things being brought to Red Faction, which means more people might want to play it. But do you think those people would want to play Red Faction now after reading all this thread? I do not think so! This has made a bad example of Red Faction and its community.
I hope you all come to your senses and apoligies to everyone for making our well favourite game look bad! |
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| Molodiets |
Posted 17th Sep 2007 12:41am |
L4Y Member
Post 1580 / 2687
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| Quoting Spikey2005 | First off, All of you happen to be arguing about weather this new GunGame server is classed as cheating.
My opinion: Can we not all accept that something new and great has been brought to Red Faction for us to enjoy more. Mappers make maps, and we accept their maps if their good maps, but do we say to a mapper ever that his map is rubbish? No we Do not. We try to encourage them to do better. |
Yes you're right. Gungame is a good addition to Red Faction. On a sidenote there are 4 fgametypes in RF including 1 custom and there are more than 20 gametypes in UT2004 including more than 10 custom gametypes. That was an answer to the guy who said RF was more modable than UT
| Quoting Spikey2005 | | But do you think those people would want to play Red Faction now after reading all this thread? I do not think so! This has made a bad example of Red Faction and its community. |
I think the thread was about convincing people to play MarsWars, a TC for Unreal tournament supposed to emulate RF. I doubt someone who is contemplating buying red faction (????) would come here and bother reading the whole thread. And even if, i don't think that would deter him
| Quoting Spikey2005 | From all the stuff I have read on this topic, I am absolutly disapointed in you all...
I hope you all come to your senses and apoligies to everyone for making our well favourite game look bad! |
Excuse me all. I love you. Let's have a hug. I'm so ashamed i have disapointed spikey. Bad, Bad me. I repent. God redeem me. |
| spoilsport |
Modified Sep 17th, 12:42am by Molodiets |
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| Molodiets |
Posted 17th Sep 2007 1:36am |
L4Y Member
Post 1582 / 2687
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| Quoting digital_ruler | | Quoting molodiets |
I think the thread was about convincing people to play MarsWars, a TC for Unreal tournament supposed to emulate RF. |
Now why the hell would someone post a thread in the Red Faction section, pulling players away from a dying game? |
You still can play MarsWars and RF but in my opinion, you'll play RF if you have it and not UT2004 or if you have a low end computer or a crappy conection or if there is never anyone playing MarsWars.
I don't know why it's in the RF section but it's funny to reproach to those who lead the MarsWars project "how dare you create a TC that is so similar to Red Faction (but better) it could drain players out of it"
The reproach could be done to any newer FPS |
| spoilsport |
Modified Sep 17th, 01:38am by Molodiets |
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| Hapa Hanu |
Posted 17th Sep 2007 2:01am |
Mac Maniac
L4Y Member
Post 939 / 1544
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Edited by Hapa |
| I have suffered in real life for the past couple years, now its your turn! |
Modified Sep 18th, 12:05am by Hapa Hanu |
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| Molodiets |
Posted 17th Sep 2007 5:33am |
L4Y Member
Post 1583 / 2687
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Edited by molodiets |
| spoilsport |
Modified Sep 17th, 11:39pm by Molodiets |
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Assaultman67  |
Posted 17th Sep 2007 6:30am | |
Post 2615 / 4376
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 ...
this topic flew into total hell   ...
| Quoting rawrzz |
It's not even a direct TC. It would seem alot of things in MW are altered from stock RF, such as weapon recoil, etc. The HMG is far from being identical to what it is in RF, as well alot of other weapons are outright messed up. Bunnyhopping is possible, etc. |
Bunnyhopping was also possible in RF ... and you just got done complaining that the game is not like RF enough  
everybody knows that the weapons aren't exact, but you gotta give redfrog some credit ... its hard to get things perfectly the same from one game to another  ... as for some of the weapons not being identical, i belive allan (probably the same person you talked about earlier and another long time RF player) was saying that MW's weapons should be changed to balance the game in one of the other RF forum boards ... at least the railgun anyways (but to be honest i can't prove it ... i dunno where the link is )
I think the arguement over weapons is just a matter of preference ... If the MW team left the weapons the way they were they are dammed, if they change them they are also dammed. Kinda an impossible situation to please everybody in my opinion.
but whatever ... you will probably respond with a harsh comment, then i will probably respond with a harsh comment ... and then this thread is 9 pages long |
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Modified Sep 17th, 06:31am by Assaultman67 |
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| Hapa Hanu |
Posted 17th Sep 2007 7:29am |
Mac Maniac
L4Y Member
Post 941 / 1544
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Edited by Hapa |
| I have suffered in real life for the past couple years, now its your turn! |
Modified Sep 18th, 12:06am by Hapa Hanu |
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