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| Red Faction : [RED] Editing : Red Faction SDI project |
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| goober |
  Posted 11th Jun 2006 5:16pm |  |
L4Y Member
Post 2971 / 265
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First off, lay off.
Transparent movers were not done before a little while ago. They were first discovered by ME about 2 months ago, so dont say things about that.
Second, im an unreal mapper as well, and i do admit it can do more than RF, but for the timeframe that UED was released, and the timeframe RED was released, RED is MUCH MUCH MUCH more advanced than UED probably ever will be.
Third, Ninja is right, it takes a while to learn the whole editor, then to try to take it to a place where noone has ever gone takes years... Ive mapped for RF for almost as long as Ninja, and ill back him up always.
Lay off!  |
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Modified Jun 11th, 05:17pm by goober |
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| FuryThor |
Posted 11th Jun 2006 5:28pm |
L4Y Member
Post 440 / 831
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| Quoting SKA-Diesel | | Quoting furythor | | I did download and play Ska-Diesel's Red Doom but I was not too impressed by it |
I will only take that comment seriously when you release a mod which is better than Red Doom. |
Small correction to my earlier statement : I was impressed that you managed to alter quite many things from original game, but I did expect something more on basis of reviews made by other users.
Also those small bugs were annoying (ie. monster attack ranges were longer than their hit animation let understand etc.) Also weapons were little underpowered for my taste.
Also some ingame things like how in heck sarge did know that door to complex was locked etc...
So I gave rating of 4/5 for your mod.
Since I got my 3d studio max 4.2 working I will start learn howto use it.
Also I make this now clear for once and all : I will be working on methods that are legal.
What comes to those other games mentioned by vocea : I can say that RED is more pleasing to work since you get some impressive detail done without extensive skill in game scripting langue. Also style how you make user activated events (movers etc) is much easier to learn in first place than using GTK Radiant for example.
Since Leninator did ask for list of changes I will be making I will do it soon.
And btw it was GOOBER who did say anything in FIRST PLACE about reversed engineering or decompiling the rf.exe so slap him too since I wasn't going to do it because I know what it would cause, otherwise than some 13 year old kid. |
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| goober |
Posted 11th Jun 2006 5:42pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 2972 / 265
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Yes i am. |
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| SKA-Diesel |
Posted 11th Jun 2006 5:46pm |
L4Y Member
Post 514 / 719
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| Quoting Vocea | | It is so simplistic it isn't funny, there is -no scripting involved-, hence no script language, and everything is basically point and click. |
Im guessing you havent tried to make a cut scene, or do any kind of AI orientated mapping/scripting. I agree that making a basic map for DM/CTF is very simple, but its the same for most game editors, the basics are simple, but theres always more to learn.
Your Photoshop analogy doesnt make your point... picking up photoshop is soo easy, but the more you use it the more you learn.. just like a game editor i.e RED. |
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| goober |
Posted 11th Jun 2006 7:05pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 2973 / 265
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I consider Photoshop as a all time learning experince... its like when you think you know the whole application, you find something else, the longer you sue PS, the better you get.
Its the same with ALL EDITORS! Not just your patetic list of "Real Editors"  |
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| Ninja~ |
Posted 11th Jun 2006 7:58pm |
L4Y Member
Post 237 / 644
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| Quoting Vocea | It is why you see all these maps still coming out for RF even though, let's face it, barely anyone plays now, because those new to RF and mapping have a super easy editor to work with... And as a result they get it into there head that they are some form of "godly mapper" from using a simplistic, very limited and underpowered, and -old- Editor that quite literally takes about a day to get the basics down, and maybe a month before you begin to think to yourself "what a crappy editor"... hell, Photoshop has a steeper learning curve then RED.  |
Red Faction is the same game as it was 6 years ago.. but for some RED gives you the ability to build high detail environments on low-end machines, Every moment in RED can be a valuable learning experience.. you just need the right attitude dude 
The more time you spend mapping in RED the more efficient you will be able to use it..
Just because you cant come up with anything new in RED doesnt mean others cant.. 
Red Faction's greatest maps are still to come mate.  |
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Modified Jun 11th, 08:05pm by Ninja~ |
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| goober |
Posted 11th Jun 2006 9:31pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 2974 / 265
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Yea really, just compare the defaults to, say, AATW2... AATW2 is 500% better..
Also, compare the first mods (a couple of skin changes and a level or 2) to RedDoom...
I mean.. the more time spend modding this game, the better |
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Assman15  |
Posted 12th Jun 2006 1:04am | |
Post 115 / 2085
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I map for various games as well, I must say that RED had a much steeper learning curve than most editors. Unreal Editor and Hammer took me about two hours each to learn the basics, RED took me at least a few days. If you think scripting makes an editor more complex and in-depth you're wrong. Scripting is still limited to the predefined variables that the programmers assign. The only editor I can think of at the moment that is more powerful (for it's time) than RED is 3D's Max (or other 3D design programs). |
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| goober |
Posted 12th Jun 2006 1:58am | |
L4Y Member
Post 2980 / 265
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Look at it this way, if RED was released today, it would be the best game editor out there. |
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| jileb |
Posted 12th Jun 2006 2:23am |
L4Y Member
Post 64 / 111
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ok FuryThor, I noticed that you have been making this "Red Shock" project or whatever it is for quite a long time, but yet we still havnt even seen one bit of it. All u seam to have done is talk about it for the last 8 mouths, yes that's right, 8 mounths. So gee man if your so good with RED and what not, why arnt we seeing any results? |
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sobe  |
Posted 12th Jun 2006 3:20am |
Post 1683 / 3194
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| Quoting SKA-Diesel | | Quoting furythor | | I did download and play Ska-Diesel's Red Doom but I was not too impressed by it |
I will only take that comment seriously when you release a mod which is better than Red Doom. |
The ONLY thing I saw wrong with Red Doom, was that the gun fire sounds sounded later than they should have been, like they were delayed. The gun shows the muzzleflash, and a few millisecs. later you hear the sound.
Other than that, one of the best I've seen. Red Doom, Lego, Eko, Hive 1.2b, and ISM are probably the best mods available atm.
The only thing that I made that I believe was a great idea for a while, was my Taunter mod. But, I guess it does get annoying after a while of listening to it.
And about this dispute with editors.... an editor is an editor, it gets what you want finished. Now, with each different editor it gives an area of detail. RED doesn't give as much detail in maps as the Hammer editor, but it still gets you close to what you want.
Anyway, I was able to pick up RED rather quick. And whether it may seem like "cheating", I opened w.r.e.c.k.s's maps in RED and examined sections of the map at a time, say around 1/4 the map as being 1 section. In fact, w.r.e.c.k.s's maps were what made me want to learn to map for RF. And I've learned of oooooooooh soo many bugs and what is too much for it to handle. |
| "Apparently, Plaintiff believes that he could sue an egg company for fraud for labeling a carton of 12 eggs a dozen, because some bakers would view a dozen as including 13 items." - Western Digital 2006 |
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| FuryThor |
Posted 12th Jun 2006 3:30am |
L4Y Member
Post 442 / 831
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Yeah that's true, I have been working for a _long_ time for this project, mainly studying HOW various things to be changed and/or added into game. Much of that work is made by try and error way since there is not ready to have instructions to do many things.
Most of archived results were lost in last year when I got some seriours problems with my computer and lost all data on hard disk. And during past 8 months I have been studying in school which has consumed much of my time and energy.
I am currently working on for first release of this "engine".
However I am currently thinking of method how I should release this : As a mod or replacement files. |
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| modmaker91 |
Posted 12th Jun 2006 3:39am |
L4Y Member
Post 334 / 407
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Just to attempt to end this dispute over which editor/enginge is more powerfull...
Which engine allows real-time non-scripted geo-mod? How long ago was it released? About 6 years. Have you seen any other games with anything close to Red Factions geo-mod (other than Red Faction II)? Nope neither have I. Six years and nobody else has come up with anything close. |
| Let those who don't understand me, fear me. Let those who understand me, fear themselves. |
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| FuryThor |
Posted 12th Jun 2006 3:52am |
L4Y Member
Post 443 / 831
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| Quoting modmaker91 | Just to attempt to end this dispute over which editor/enginge is more powerfull...
Which engine allows real-time non-scripted geo-mod? How long ago was it released? About 6 years. Have you seen any other games with anything close to Red Factions geo-mod (other than Red Faction II)? Nope neither have I. Six years and nobody else has come up with anything close. |
Yep I have to agree. Old but still superior engine.
Oh and I just want to make it better. |
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| goober |
Posted 12th Jun 2006 10:26am | |
L4Y Member
Post 2983 / 265
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Ummm, correction, modmaker, RFII didnt have geo... |
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