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| Red Faction : Lounge : Question About L-S clan |
[Forum Rules] |
| Vidi44 |
  Posted 31st Jul 2005 2:08am |
L4Y Member
Post 45 / 668
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Ok, the "putting one's life on the line for a game" is a euphemism for the fact that I hold the clan in such high regard, that they are like family to me, and that family should protect family.
I think the part that bothers him the most is that I mentioned that I consider very few people "skilled". I'm sorry if you feel badly about that, however if I went around all day calling everyone "skilled" and all that, I'd be called an idiot because, obviously, not everyone can be skilled to such a high level. That's like saying, "well, bubba here can shoot a target dead-center at 200 feet with a 9mm, so he's clearly skilled", then saying "well, cleetus here can shoot a target, and almost hit the center, at 2 feet with a 12 gauge, so he's skilled too". Sad thing that you have to admit, if you're offended by that, it probably means you aren't skilled.
To become "skilled", you must be able to make command decisions on the fly, report information to superiors and the field commanders, and be a team player. I hold this section the highest, because frags aren't the entire game, there is teamwork. Granted, there is the fragging section, which includes: a score of at least 80 in CM without base raping or any other semi-n00b tactics (how skilled is it to kill someone who just spawned and doesn't have a chance?). Also, you must be able to snipe accurately without the scope on warlords (use the pr, its easiest), shoot a rail at someone through the wall without the aide of a scope, be able to capture the flag by yourself and wipe out any opposition, as well as being able to mow down a rush (rush = when the enemy holds a massive movement towards your base to capture the flag, ie half the opposing team or even just a quarter (so long as it is 3 or more) is rushing frantically to capture the flag) by yourself.
As you can see, the majority of people can't do this. Half the time, even I can't do this, so don't call me an elitist, as I'll admit that I can't do half the stuff I mentioned. Sure I might get lucky, however I'm at least knowledgable enough to realize it was pure luck, and to never allow myself to think better of myself. However, the key to becomming skilled is to work on teamwork. Nothing is done alone, and that is a key problem with a lot of clans. <L-S>has the brains to realize this, and they work wonderously together. Notice that of all the clans I mentioned (frag4, LS, and TEM), that 2 out of 3 of them hold very high emphasis on teamwork (give you a hint, the majority (80%) of the time, it won't be frag4). Before you "get fired up", work on your teamwork, and practice reciting enemy positions. Granted in smaller sections, this won't be overly helpful. However, even in CM, if you relay that after you died, you saw a massive rush moving out the door, signal your team to intercept. In larger sections, this works even better.
Before you start insulting me and my intelligence, look at yourself. If you're not a team player, don't complain to me that you're not listed under skilled. Even if you can fire a pistol clip in under 2 seconds, I don't care. You can shoot an entire pistol clip, reload and fire that one, and never hit a thing. Aside from that, if you're standing there drumming, you could possibly stop your teammates from advancing, possibly to a tactically superior position. Half the time, I even wonder if I should list frag4 under this heading, as oftentimes (as evidenced by nick and a few others), they simply base rape, get 200 some kills, then leave. Often, this leaves the team at a worse position, as during the rapings, someone could have ran after the flag, and slowly progressed it over to be captured.
Not to insult you or anyone, however the statements I made are mostly in reference to almost every clan's solidarity. It is well that they can frag 200 people in 20 minutes, however if they don't capture the flag, if they hog the glory, and if they do not allow others the satisfaction of playing the game the way it is meant to be played (with teamwork and trust), they aren't skilled, and they aren't much of a clan. With a little training, anyone could do this, however it takes more than training and luck to be part of a team. Granted the majority of my statements are meant for team based gaming, however they do apply (to some extent) in dm. If you run around fragging people left and right, people will leave the server, and if done long enough, the game. It takes a few people with enough stupidity to ruin it all for everyone but them.
Response to NCF: I meantioned earlier (I think it was paragraph 3), that I myself can't do half the fragging activities, however as my clan is big on teamwork, I do list it as skilled). Also, if anything, in rankings of fragging ability, I'm almost boarderline n00b, however with teamwork, I can get things done (which explains to all you rogue RF players (clanless people) why I'll probably never accept a 1v1 battle, I know I'll lose, so why waste the time?).
If Pack Hunter wants to be "fired up" over my discount of his clan from the list, that is his own problem to deal with. If I saw a clan (not just a member) who is willing to place their characters' lives (notice I didn't say life, so you can't say "put his life down for the team?") on the line for the good of the clan and whatever team they're on (be they not in a clan battle), then I'd include them. Until this day, I've not seen any other clan but the three mentioned who will do this (perhaps I should remove frag4, however their blind fragging abilities help them barely inch over the line into "fragging skilled"). I leave you to your criticism. |
"Don't go there. It's ugly, and it never stops being ugly."
"Naps are good" - Visual C++.NET for Dummies, page 1 |
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NoClanFrank  |
Posted 31st Jul 2005 3:39am |  |
Post 1285 / 5840
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| Quoting Vidi44 | | Response to NCF: I mentioned earlier (I think it was paragraph 3), that I myself can't do half the fragging activities, however as my clan is big on teamwork, I do list it as skilled). Also, if anything, in rankings of fragging ability, I'm almost borderline n00b, however with teamwork, I can get things done (which explains to all you rogue RF players (clan less people) why I'll probably never accept a 1v1 battle, I know I'll lose, so why waste the time?). |
Dude, your response was not needed as far as my post went as it did not really involve you or any clan for that matter. I was actually trying to find out why that particular paragraph offended him... 
BTW I am not a rogue player, I use to be in a CLAN that has since moved to UT2004. A game that I tend to play more often than Red Faction. People don't call you n00bs or get all pissed off because of the weapon/s you use. I play VCTF and I have yet to get one single person complaining that anybody else is cheating. With the exception of one IDIOT!
If you felt offended by my comments then I am sorry but they are only words that can be deleted.
But seriously if this turns into an argument on who or what is better I will have no choice but to close this thread. |
| >Click Here< If You Don't Have a Social Life :/ |
Modified Jul 31st, 03:43am by NoClanFrank |
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| Pack Hunter |
Posted 31st Jul 2005 4:21am |
L4Y Member
Post 199 / 229
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ok now that im finally done reading an essay that my teacher would have given me an A on i understand what u mean by skilled, because all you talking about is ctf, if at all you were including dm then you would and should be able to understand why i got angry at your statmetn, the statement that was higlighted in grean ncf.
a few simple things that got me angry was the fact that there are very small and very skilled clans out there, that may i say are even better, then most LS people, if you have ever played an hdkp player you will understand this.
although i have not had the enjoyment of playing you or any one in your clan, im sure we all have our differences, specially in what type of gamestyle we enjoy. i persanolly enjoy a few ctf maps and in no way consider myself the best of the best though i am skilled. the reason i say this is because i think if you left the plane of ctf and merged into dm you might not do as hot as you do in ctf. thiugh by playing ctf i learned how to play better in dm. |
| We will be known by the tracks we leave behind |
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| Vidi44 |
Posted 31st Jul 2005 7:36pm |
L4Y Member
Post 46 / 668
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| Quoting NoClanFrank | | Quoting Vidi44 | | Response to NCF: I mentioned earlier (I think it was paragraph 3), that I myself can't do half the fragging activities, however as my clan is big on teamwork, I do list it as skilled). Also, if anything, in rankings of fragging ability, I'm almost borderline n00b, however with teamwork, I can get things done (which explains to all you rogue RF players (clan less people) why I'll probably never accept a 1v1 battle, I know I'll lose, so why waste the time?). |
Dude, your response was not needed as far as my post went as it did not really involve you or any clan for that matter. I was actually trying to find out why that particular paragraph offended him...
BTW I am not a rogue player, I use to be in a CLAN that has since moved to UT2004. A game that I tend to play more often than Red Faction. People don't call you n00bs or get all pissed off because of the weapon/s you use. I play VCTF and I have yet to get one single person complaining that anybody else is cheating. With the exception of one IDIOT!
If you felt offended by my comments then I am sorry but they are only words that can be deleted.
But seriously if this turns into an argument on who or what is better I will have no choice but to close this thread. |
Uhh... ok, I didn't mean what you said here. I didn't feel offended by your comments, however I did want to emphasize that what I consider to be "skilled" is not precisely what I am. That being said, all I basically wanted to do was erase any proposed elitism that people would try to argue that I have.
What I meant by that paragraph is that by myself, I can't do well, as I just don't have the ability (and the lag in my area is horrible, but that only compounds the problem) to play in dm, thus every one of my statements will pretty much pertain to ctf and tdm matches. Regarding the "rogue players", I meant those who are clanless and will often challenge people to duels. Being a person of my word, I will decline, however if pressured, I'll accept. However, as I'm not very good at it, I don't usually accept until the person is very adamant about dueling. I should have been more specific in my phrasing, and for that I apologize. However, with a name like NoClanFrank, you can see how I was confused. However, this isn't to type all clanless people into a category, however in my experience, the majority that I've encountered are the people who will simply enter a game, disrupt it with duel requests, then leave after severely limiting the players' ability to play the game. For those clanless people who aren't like that, I apologize.
As for Pack, he seems to have seen what I meant, perhaps you could explain things to NCF should my rebuttal fail.
Please let us not allow this to escalate into an arguement where none should be presant. This thread should be closed, however the preferable action should be to remove clans from this and address the problem of "teamless team matches". Last night, I saw a major improvement after making my "essays". I walked in and found people to actually follow my advice (something I thought would never happen), and guess what, the games were actually fun and we learned something from every battle. Instead of 20 minutes of being destroyed by the enemy, we had 20 minutes of real fighting, where rushes were organized and every rush had the possibility of success. Base defense was practical and almost every time succeeded. In the end, it was limited to how many people were on your team and how well of a team you had, instead of who can click the fastest and who can dodge the best. This is a real improvement, and hopefully it will continue. |
"Don't go there. It's ugly, and it never stops being ugly."
"Naps are good" - Visual C++.NET for Dummies, page 1 |
Modified Jul 31st, 11:48pm by Vidi44 |
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| InK |
Posted 1st Aug 2005 4:47pm |
L4Y Member
Post 24 / 26
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| Quoting Vidi44 |
Granted, there is the fragging section, which includes: a score of at least 80 in CM without base raping or any other semi-n00b tactics (how skilled is it to kill someone who just spawned and doesn't have a chance?). Also, you must be able to snipe accurately without the scope on warlords (use the pr, its easiest), shoot a rail at someone through the wall without the aide of a scope, be able to capture the flag by yourself and wipe out any opposition, as well as being able to mow down a rush (rush = when the enemy holds a massive movement towards your base to capture the flag, ie half the opposing team or even just a quarter (so long as it is 3 or more) is rushing frantically to capture the flag) by yourself. |
I don't play RF much Nor do I care about being skilled. BUT, getting 80 frags in CM doesn't make you skilled. It doesn't make you bad either. What your saying is based on oponion though.. I just don't see where you get "80". Whats wrong with shooting someone who just spawnd? As long as your not doing it to be an annoyance, I really don't see anything wrong with it. The scope was created in the game, therefore I don't see why it matters if someone uses the scope or not. Also it clearly can't be put in as a factor of being "skilled". I've seen people play good without even touching a railgun sniperrifle,pr.
By the way...I don't judge people on wheither they're good at a game or not. I judge people by their attitude. As of <L-S>I don't really have a problem with them. I don't really notice other people having problems with them either. If I don't like their Viper3 server I just play in a different one. |
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Modified Aug 1st, 04:49pm by InK |
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| CommanderViper |
Posted 1st Aug 2005 4:51pm |
L4Y Member
Post 145 / 423
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| Quoting InK | | If I don't like their Viper3 server I just play in a different one. |
Off Topic: Viper 3 isnt our server, we just play there a lot. Just figured I'd clear that up before people started saying it again.
<L-S>Agent X |
| "I've gotten 2,415 times smarter since then." -Master Control Program |
Modified Aug 1st, 04:51pm by CommanderViper |
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| Pack Hunter |
Posted 1st Aug 2005 6:20pm |
L4Y Member
Post 204 / 229
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thats one thing you didnt have to say to clear up, no matter how many times you say it people will think and continue to beleive viper three to belong to LS
note that what i said above is not a retort and i dont want it to be taken as a retort to what camnderviper said |
| We will be known by the tracks we leave behind |
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| CommanderViper |
Posted 1st Aug 2005 7:54pm |
L4Y Member
Post 146 / 423
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No problem there PH, I know exactly what you mean. However, if we take gradual steps, eventually a lot of people will know to the point where it will no longer be a problem. |
| "I've gotten 2,415 times smarter since then." -Master Control Program |
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| Vidi44 |
Posted 1st Aug 2005 7:59pm |
L4Y Member
Post 48 / 668
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| Quoting InK | | Quoting Vidi44 |
Granted, there is the fragging section, which includes: a score of at least 80 in CM without base raping or any other semi-n00b tactics (how skilled is it to kill someone who just spawned and doesn't have a chance?). Also, you must be able to snipe accurately without the scope on warlords (use the pr, its easiest), shoot a rail at someone through the wall without the aide of a scope, be able to capture the flag by yourself and wipe out any opposition, as well as being able to mow down a rush (rush = when the enemy holds a massive movement towards your base to capture the flag, ie half the opposing team or even just a quarter (so long as it is 3 or more) is rushing frantically to capture the flag) by yourself. |
I don't play RF much Nor do I care about being skilled. BUT, getting 80 frags in CM doesn't make you skilled. It doesn't make you bad either. What your saying is based on oponion though.. I just don't see where you get "80". Whats wrong with shooting someone who just spawnd? As long as your not doing it to be an annoyance, I really don't see anything wrong with it. The scope was created in the game, therefore I don't see why it matters if someone uses the scope or not. Also it clearly can't be put in as a factor of being "skilled". I've seen people play good without even touching a railgun sniperrifle,pr.
By the way...I don't judge people on wheither they're good at a game or not. I judge people by their attitude. As of <L-S>I don't really have a problem with them. I don't really notice other people having problems with them either. If I don't like their Viper3 server I just play in a different one. |
The scopeless sniping denotes that you have a good idea on the physics of the game. Anyone can use a scope and get a headshot, but if you can do without the scope and shoot from the same sniping distance, you obviously know how to aim and predict where the enemy is moving (railgun without scope, behind wall, takes a lot of practice to accurately frag a player from behind the wall).
Shooting someone who just spawned is considered n00bish because spawned players have almost no chance of surviving. Of course people do very well without scoped weapons (I myself like the smg and shotgun). This actually was the point to the scopeless designation. Read above for details.
Getting 80 kills without spawn killing is actually pretty difficult. Doing so without the use of the railgun's scope and remote charges/rockets is even more difficult. The term "skilled" is called so for a reason, it isn't meant to be easy stuff. The people who routinely get over 100 kills are most often the ones who spawn kill and remote charge their base. Also, the 80 average is based off what I've seen in servers. The people who do as I've listed often will get a "small" 80 kills. However, as noted above, it is very difficult to get 80 kills without railguning and all that other stuff.
However, the biggest thing that you're missing is that "skilled" doesn't apply heavily to individualistic gameplay (as you are trying to do). Teamwork (as I've meantioned before) is very important, for if you can't work with others, you'll be overrun by those who can. |
"Don't go there. It's ugly, and it never stops being ugly."
"Naps are good" - Visual C++.NET for Dummies, page 1 |
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| RF4LIFE |
Posted 9th Oct 2005 6:04pm |
Welcome!
Post 1 / 4
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| Quoting Vidi44 |
It is well that they can frag 200 people in 20 minutes, however if they don't capture the flag, if they hog the glory, and if they do not allow others the satisfaction of playing the game the way it is meant to be played (with teamwork and trust), they aren't skilled, and they aren't much of a clan. |
Biggest CENSORED i heard its pointless 2 play on a big public server for a team result..when i wanna play as Team i practice with my clan mates we tryin new tactics etc...On public Servers i play for fun n also sumtimes for highscores means i spawn fragg also a lot...jus aim practice for upcoming clanwars( and ya im a teamplayer.sumtimes im jus the guy that sits with c4 on flag in base *rofl in clanwars its the other thing i play not for fraggs just fo the team result!!!)...n when u cant understand that nvm not my fault its no reason 2 ban a non modding player cos he camps on warlords mid n fraggin a lot while his team got flag... i got banned from viper3 for that-.-!!!
| Quoting Vidi44 | | With a little training, anyone could do this, however it takes more than training and luck to be part of a team. Granted the majority of my statements are meant for team based gaming, however they do apply (to some extent) in dm. |
i dont think so that everyone can reach scores like that with a lil bit train.. it takes long time 2 get aim like that ...specially on servers where the hmg is disabled. btw i like it like that... makes checkmate more fun without it.
| Quoting Vidi44 | | If you run around fragging people left and right, people will leave the server, and if done long enough, the game. It takes a few people with enough stupidity to ruin it all for everyone but them. |
lol thats the sense of the game "fraggin people".. dont kno whats wrong on that.. sry i dont get it what u trying 2 say!! |
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Mostertman  |
Posted 9th Oct 2005 6:28pm |
Post 582 / 2820
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@RF4LIFE
Bringing up old topics with your first post...
BAD!!! |
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| RF4LIFE |
Posted 9th Oct 2005 7:07pm |
Welcome!
Post 2 / 4
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| Quoting Mostertman | @RF4LIFE
Bringing up old topics with your first post...
BAD!!! |
is that a try 2 flame me  |
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| Mostertman |
Posted 9th Oct 2005 7:14pm |
Post 585 / 2820
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| Quoting RF4LIFE | | Quoting Mostertman | @RF4LIFE
Bringing up old topics with your first post...
BAD!!! |
is that a try 2 flame me |
No not really, I'm not flaming anybody. but its just a way to try and tell you that it isn't a good idea to bring up old topics.  |
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| Ranswer3 |
Posted 9th Oct 2005 7:29pm |
L4Y Member
Post 112 / 249
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First impressions say alot. |
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| goober |
Posted 9th Oct 2005 7:46pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 652 / 265
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its true they do, just think of it, if you see someone going down the road, walking peacefully you are going to have a much differnt impression then if the same guy walked down the street and started beating the POOP outa someone  |
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