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| Red Faction : [RED] Editing : Red Holes, holes |
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| Enforce |
  Posted 9th Jan 2005 3:07pm |
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Red Faction refuses to run levels that have a lot of little holes, even if they are tiny little holes caused by a cylinder brush not set to detail, the engine goes by the NUMBER of holes in it, the more unstable the engine gets, if the number is too high (like over 15 or more), it soon gets unstable, crashes an you can't test your level until all the holes are fixed up, pretty fragile thing Red is..
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| Red limits breached?, Yep, (20,000 fces and its still going !) |
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| Molodiets |
Posted 9th Jan 2005 3:10pm |
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pretty fragiles, indeed.
But open the other maps downloadable here. No holes at all. Mappers have got rid of even tinny weeny little holes. |
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| Enforce |
Posted 9th Jan 2005 3:49pm |
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Hmm, I got rid of all my holes, but still my map wont' run, checked map and lo, my holes are back again !!
A couple of detail brushes that I clicked DETAIL FLAGS ON before had somehow reset themselves back to solid again and made red unstable !!!
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| Red limits breached?, Yep, (20,000 fces and its still going !) |
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| Mighty Mike |
Posted 9th Jan 2005 3:50pm |
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So you know what the problem is, and how to fix it, yet for some reason don't.
What is your point? They aren't really "holes", you know. What does size have to do with it anyway?
Edit: you beat me there...
If you're using that box on the center left to tag your brushes, make sure you click Update after you tag. |
| ◄ Mike | Codename: Iron Sun for RF ► |
Modified Jan 9th, 03:52pm by Mighty Mike |
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| mad_ferrit |
Posted 9th Jan 2005 4:15pm |
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There's no excuse for having holes in your level. It basically equates to bad brushwork. |
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NoClanFrank  |
Posted 9th Jan 2005 5:33pm |  |
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| Quoting mad_ferrit | | There's no excuse for having holes in your level. It basically equates to bad brushwork. |
Are you sure?
-->Excuse<--
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| RF Grim Reaper |
Posted 9th Jan 2005 5:35pm | |
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I agree with mad, if you add a brush and a hole appears then you have to change how you're building the level or re-think your brush arrangements.
Setting some brushes to detail does usually 'fix' holes but it's IMO a bit of a sloppy way of doing it. |
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| RED_JUSTICE |
Posted 9th Jan 2005 5:53pm |
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| Quoting Enforce | Red Faction refuses to run levels that have a lot of little holes, even if they are tiny little holes caused by a cylinder brush not set to detail, the engine goes by the NUMBER of holes in it, the more unstable the engine gets, if the number is too high (like over 15 or more), it soon gets unstable, crashes an you can't test your level until all the holes are fixed up, pretty fragile thing Red is..
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Holes are very very bad. When one appears you must stop everything you are doing and move brushes around until the hole disappears. You cna find the holes by using the "rebuild with hole lines" feautre. This will create yellow lines that point to th eholes. Where the yellow line intersects with a tiny blue line is the location of the hole.
Move oyur brushes a tad...sometimes just moving one .0135 one direction or another will do away with the hole.
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| NoClanFrank |
Posted 9th Jan 2005 5:57pm | |
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What you need to do at the begining is keep an eye out for holes. If you get one then you know the last move/brush/edit you did is more than likely the one that caused it.
You can sometimes get holes running/using a portal that runs through a detail brush like a window or door way.  |
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| Mighty Mike |
Posted 9th Jan 2005 8:09pm |
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Well, holes are a pretty forgiving type of error in the sense that you can easily retrospect-fix it. Level >Rebuild with Hole Lines, after some practice, gives you a good idea of where the problem originates.
If you don't have the sense to do what Frank suggested from the beginning, the above option plus selectively hiding and unhiding brushes still do the trick. |
| ◄ Mike | Codename: Iron Sun for RF ► |
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| Enforce |
Posted 13th Jan 2005 10:17am |
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Yea, when the white box in Red turns RED on a build, I know there is a hole in the brushes somewhere. Usually solid brushes cause holes if they are not set to detail when you rebuild, especially face brushes or small cylinders can cause red to not properly rebuild, causing holes.
I don't know why Red has a problem with holes with the way certain brushes are arranged, but by changing the offending brush causing the hole to a detail brush then that usually works most of the time in getting rid of it.
Why then does Red cause holes ? |
| Red limits breached?, Yep, (20,000 fces and its still going !) |
Modified Jan 13th, 10:20am by Enforce |
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| Kiliad |
Posted 13th Jan 2005 11:47am |
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Bending brushes, especially cylinders, will often cause holes. I was trying to make a long pipe with a bend on the end so I made it in two pieces - one straight and a short bit on the end which I bent and then tried to attach. Even though the ends where aligned I had a hole and it wouldn't go away unless I moved one of the brushes so that they were no longer aligned. The result was a join that was obvious and that really peeved me. Didn't matter what I did I just couldn't get it to align without getting a hole. |
| "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with." - Groucho Marx |
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Lace  |
Posted 13th Jan 2005 12:13pm |
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| Quoting Kiliad | | Didn't matter what I did I just couldn't get it to align without getting a hole. |
Did you try to fuse the pipes together? |
| A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. |
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| mad_ferrit |
Posted 13th Jan 2005 1:54pm |
L4Y Member
Post 0 / 1510
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| Quoting Lace | | Quoting Kiliad | | Didn't matter what I did I just couldn't get it to align without getting a hole. |
Did you try to fuse the pipes together? |
If there is a hole, as a result of some 'dodgy' brushwork, then you don't want to be trying to patch it up with a quick fuse. I doubt it would eliminate the hole and will certainly add a few more faces and make the whole thing much harder to texture.
I can't see how you've managed to get holes by simply bending a cylindrical brush tho. Was it hollowed out? If so I'd have tried carving out the air brush, delete it and then bend the solid hollow pipe that you are left with. |
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Beatonator  |
Posted 13th Jan 2005 2:40pm |
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I get Holes occasionally. On my latest map I think I got one due to a Portal Cut. all i did was slide it a little left and down and Voila fixed. also have problems with Pipes thing is no matter what I did they had a hole so I left them with it and set them to Detail like they should be anyway.  also Face Brushes will nearly always give me a hole unless its Detail.  |
Trying to find old players. Anyone about? Drop me a PM or reply to this thread:
>Link< (or head over to RFrun.net's comment section!) |
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| Enforce |
Posted 13th Jan 2005 8:52pm |
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Post 0 / 312
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You can easily get holes in cylinder brushes if you bend or twist it around TOO MUCH. You can click on your whole level and then bend it and then you will see lots of holes starting to pop up the more you bend it, the faces start to split themselves up ripping holes in the level
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| Red limits breached?, Yep, (20,000 fces and its still going !) |
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