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| Red Faction : [RED] Editing : The Solar System... in RF! |
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| RED-FROG |
  Posted 8th Aug 2009 12:00am |  |
L4Y Resident
Post 4589 / 5258
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No no..
Just build the map like you would normally.
Lets say, if you hit the limit, you can exceed this limit by continuing with Detail brushes.
Because detail brushes use a different "pipeline" in the engine.
And let's say oyu hit the limit with that, too - you can continue with keyframed brushes.
Get what I mean?
It sounds a little weird in theory, but RED is full of STUPID limitations set in stone, that shouldn't really need to be there. The limitations should adapt to the used hardware. :/
I think it's because the developers needed those limits for not exceeding the performance output of the consoles. |
| ¤ MARS WARS 3! - Red Faction revamped on the unreal engine. Superiority ¤ |
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| Spikey2005 |
Posted 8th Aug 2009 12:11am | |
L4Y Member
Post 1330 / 2126
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All the planets are movers. Even so, there is like 1000+ little rocks I made with at least 28 faces each... I basically made them without building geomentry then keyframed them instantly then rebuilt geo. Now RED is a little laggy when I look at them all in one of the views so I avoid them or zoom in on them to stop RED from crashing. They count as faces but in a way, they do not count to RED's limits. So basically, You could affectively make a map out of movers to add more to it, it it gets too large. Hense the reason why I can run it on my computer. I have a slightly less faster computer than you enforece.
My computer is:
Intel Core2Duo - Overclocked to 3.20GHz
4 GBs RAM
ATi RADEON 3870 x2 1GB GFX card
Windows 7
Red Faction still runs the map really well and really smoothly. So basically this is the trick.
And im not kiddin either... map still works with these
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Check me out on Youtube
www.youtube.com/themudkiphut |
Modified Aug 8th, 01:30am by Spikey2005 |
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| Enforce |
Posted 8th Aug 2009 8:16am |
L4Y Member
Post 249 / 312
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I am happy to see that you can continue on with detail brushes or keyframes
past the limits.
The next question, ok it works for us who have powerful machines, but How does this affect the other guys who don't have as powerful machines, will the maps still work on
their machines when loading them into Red or into the game to play? |
| Red limits breached?, Yep, (20,000 fces and its still going !) |
Modified Aug 8th, 08:29am by Enforce |
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| Spikey2005 |
Posted 8th Aug 2009 10:33am | |
L4Y Member
Post 1331 / 2126
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Great question to ask. At the moment, I am currently testing the map with Doc Savage. He runs a Laptop with a Intel Core2Duo but has a intergrated Intel Family graphics chip in it. I think its only around 128MB shared memory, and so far, Doc is not having any issues on his laptop with it so far.
I have got a old PC behind me aswell that runs a AMD Athlon 1.2GHz with a max of 1GB of RAM and a AGP graphics card that only runs at 256MBs. Its a peice of $hit and I am thinking about fixing it up to work for Red Faction to test majority of maps I make to see if they run on old computers.
To be honest, old computers are not my concern any more. If I know correctly, people will be able to decide for them selves weather a map can run on their PC or not. If they get decent FPS in Red Faction, then they should have no worries at all about huge and performance eating maps. Considering that this map is a Single Player only and is intended for fun, there should be no worries at all.
If how ever it does cause issues for one PC, then that is their problem for not upgrading  .
I am a PC gamer, I like playing games on my PC, so I upgrade my computer. You want to become a PC gamer for the newest games coming out, you will have to upgrade sooner or later to be able to play them.
But, to stop people from calling me stupid, (About the Old Computers not of my concern), I am doing this because I have had enough thrown at me from Goober & Nick about my maps being too big and taking a crap on people's performance. They are correct in what they say, So I am building this old computer up for my self to toy around with for Red Faction. |
Check me out on Youtube
www.youtube.com/themudkiphut |
Modified Aug 8th, 10:37am by Spikey2005 |
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| Enforce |
Posted 8th Aug 2009 1:09pm |
L4Y Member
Post 250 / 312
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Has anyone bypassed the 64 Entity limit in Red? When you go past 64, strange things happen to the entities past that number, they lose their colliusion boxes...
[Great question to ask. At the moment, I am currently testing the map with Doc Savage. He runs a Laptop with a Intel Core2Duo but has a intergrated Intel Family graphics chip in it. I think its only around 128MB shared memory, and so far, Doc is not having any issues on his laptop with it so far.]
"Ah, Yes I know Doc, Hes tested a couple of my maps already....I've now changed my ideas around, going big on outdoors scenery, but going small now on any inside rooms.... I'm interested in this solar system map to see what has been done so far.
Do the asteroids roll around in space yet?
Do saturn's rings rotate?
Are all the planets rotating very slooowly?
Why can't you get your moons to do their orbits?
Here's something else you might consider trying to do, adding
some atmosphee to the planet by giving it a moving detail brush
mist that rotates very slowly.
You'll need to do Goober's transparency mover trick to get that effect.
I use that effect to create Swamps or moving mist on the ground. It should work for
spheroids.
Have you put a sphere push region around the Sun so people can't crash into it?
Or turn the push region into a jump pad, and send them halfway across the solar
system and as they are flying through space, black the screen and
fade it in, only to see the screen being filled up with a big spinning rock lol/.
I've just added a couple of rolling asteroids to the level I'm working on. It is an outdoors scene with a purple pink planet. There is also a freeware program called Noctris which creates some nice looking stars and It allows you to take screen captures of the stars or planets that you visit....
Now the next thing Spikey, is to put in a few Galaxies, and gas Nebulas in the skybox, , but you need to edit the galaxy and nebula texture and put some stars in them so it blends in with the rest of the skybox so you don't see the black squares of those face brushes in
the skybox... You can have a moving rotating skybox as well. |
| Red limits breached?, Yep, (20,000 fces and its still going !) |
Modified Aug 8th, 01:27pm by Enforce |
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| Spikey2005 |
Posted 8th Aug 2009 3:19pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 1332 / 2126
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Lots of great idea's there Enforce. I might put a few of them to consideration and give them a blast! Thank you  .
Some Improvements have been made. I have added a Space Station and the sun has been given a better look.
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Check me out on Youtube
www.youtube.com/themudkiphut |
Modified Aug 10th, 07:16pm by Spikey2005 |
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| Enforce |
Posted 13th Aug 2009 1:35am |
L4Y Member
Post 253 / 312
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Because your solar system level has not been portaled although you might portal the space station, , you may find the 3d lightmaps may stop working for you if you been using them, but you don't really need lights, for this kind of level, fullbright would work.
Is that a VBM effect that I'm looking at (concerning the sun?)
I discovered an iintresting effect you could use for a power source for your
space station using a few Bolt Emitters and a couple of rotating lights.
I'm interested to know if anyone has bypassed the 900 or so object limit in Red. |
| Red limits breached?, Yep, (20,000 fces and its still going !) |
Modified Aug 13th, 12:20pm by Enforce |
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| Spikey2005 |
Posted 13th Aug 2009 3:49pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 1340 / 2126
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The suns a particle emitter. Im adding to the Space Station so its not finished. |
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| Enforce |
Posted 13th Aug 2009 10:09pm |
L4Y Member
Post 254 / 312
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Spikey, With your particle emitters sun, I do like the effect, , but it might clip out of range
on you when turning the camera around, ((unless that only affects it when solid brushes
are close up to it. ) I'm at 12,000 faces now, and no holes, no more crashing, its a big difference. The map is much more stable. No holes anymore with portals that just wouldn't go away. I know now I can't build my maps with alot of normal brushes
in it because of that annoying holes bug. So its about 30% normal brushes, while
60% of it in detail and this seems to be a much better balance for the engine. |
| Red limits breached?, Yep, (20,000 fces and its still going !) |
Modified Aug 13th, 11:27pm by Enforce |
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| Spikey2005 |
Posted 14th Aug 2009 4:26pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 1344 / 2126
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To be honest with you mate, if the sun does clip out, its not something to worry about to a great exstent. It probley would, but I have not yet tested it. This is only going to be a single player map with the ability to visit other planets. I am going to be doing a load level event system in this so that if you fly close to a planet, you get put onto a loading screen then a little map area for you to visit and explore of each planet. |
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Assman15  |
Posted 14th Aug 2009 6:39pm | |
Post 1844 / 2085
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| Quoting Spikey2005 | | I am going to be doing a load level event system in this so that if you fly close to a planet, you get put onto a loading screen then a little map area for you to visit and explore of each planet. |
That actually sounds pretty interesting. Are you going to make the terrain as close to reality as possible (by looking at satellite maps and such) or are you just going to wing it? |
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| TrotSkie |
Posted 14th Aug 2009 8:03pm |
L4Y Member
Post 125 / 130
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Please don't read this topic and decide that using detail brushes is the way forward to fix holes in maps and to extend rf's poly support. My map fortress has 16796 faces with hardly any detail brushes. All it takes is a few well placed portals. Detail brushes drastically decrease performance in game. The only case where this trick is useful is if you're making a solar system . To show that it really isn't necessary to have detail brushes to have a big poly count, I copied and pasted Fortress 3 times (connecting it end to end) resulting in 46743 faces and over 500 lights. I've yet to find a portal bug that couldn't be fixed.
In summary, detail brushes BAD, portals GOOD. |
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Modified Aug 14th, 08:05pm by TrotSkie |
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| Spikey2005 |
Posted 14th Aug 2009 8:46pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 1345 / 2126
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indeed in your case you are correct but my maps has not got portals, yet it seems to run without them. Its weird how RED works but never the less, if its gonna acheive what I want it to do, then hell im happy as larry! |
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| Enforce |
Posted 15th Aug 2009 11:08am |
L4Y Member
Post 258 / 312
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In summary, detail brushes BAD, portals GOOD. [/quote]
Ok so what about all the number of t-joints then? Are they a problem ?
I already have 21-22 portals alreeady in my map |
| Red limits breached?, Yep, (20,000 fces and its still going !) |
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| RED-FROG |
Posted 15th Aug 2009 12:02pm | |
L4Y Resident
Post 4607 / 5258
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| Quoting Spikey2005 | | indeed in your case you are correct but my maps has not got portals, yet it seems to run without them. Its weird how RED works but never the less, if its gonna acheive what I want it to do, then hell im happy as larry! |
your map doesn't need any since the clip plane is not far enough to render everything at once anyway. Plus, there barely is any detail put into it.
Portals are most likely only useable when you have a lot of clutter, many different textures, many players/entities, many details/keyframes/windows and all this..rendered in a small range.
On low performance PCs, with for example GeForce2 or 3s, portals help in pretty much every aspect, (except for maps like yours)
It's hard to seperate outdoor maps with portals efficiently in RED. |
| ¤ MARS WARS 3! - Red Faction revamped on the unreal engine. Superiority ¤ |
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