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| Red Faction : [RED] Editing : Bad Engine Physics |
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| topspins |
  Posted 21st Sep 2005 12:03am |
L4Y Member
Post 65 / 102
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All Red does is bounce things up and down in the same spot when you use the Spawn-object event and put it up high. It dosen't make things scatter (used oil barrels in this experiment). And the only way to make barrels scatter is to use an ice texture prefix on a custom texture. But something is wrong with the spawn, the barrels just fall into each other instead of bouncing off one another like they did in Deux II and just lump together in the same spot. No collision detection, shoot the barrels and they don't even explode, your weapons just go straight through them, when they spawn and fall on you, they don't even cause any damage.
WHAT Volition should've done was add a properties window similar to the particle emitter window where we can select different options to set what we want. |
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Modified Sep 21st, 12:12am by topspins |
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sobe  |
Posted 21st Sep 2005 12:35am |
Post 694 / 3194
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It seems as though you have become deeply involved with RED. As I once found out, RED has it's limits. Such as making a micro map with popcorn.... With about 20 small popcorn pieces RED crashed. And such as with my latest map I am in the process of creating, ctf-cs_assault. While making the fencing, if I add a .01 size cyndrilical brush to use as "barb wire" going from the top of the fence running to each side, RED crashed when I added more than 1 fence with this. I take it off and all is well.
RED has it's little issues. But, give it cred for what it CAN do  Don't always diss it. |
| "Apparently, Plaintiff believes that he could sue an egg company for fraud for labeling a carton of 12 eggs a dozen, because some bakers would view a dozen as including 13 items." - Western Digital 2006 |
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| RF Grim Reaper |
Posted 21st Sep 2005 3:48am |  |
L4Y Member
Post 373 / 902
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Yes RED does have some annoying limits, however it's 'brush physics' still hold up pretty well if you ask me
You can give barrels etc collision detection and the like, but that would require a bit of table editing ( removing no_collide 's ).
There's always push regions and movers if all else fails  |
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| Predalienator |
Posted 21st Sep 2005 6:50am |
Welcome!
Post 609 / 1
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If only someone had the knowledge to upgrade its engine into Havoc,s engine  with graphics that look like Max Payne 2 that would be cool eventough MP 2 does not has the best graphics but it just humilates RF  with its grahics,same for Pariah.Ahhhhh Pariah how i liked the phisics and stupid enemies that just line up for a Grenade Launcher that has been upgraded  |
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| topspins |
Posted 21st Sep 2005 7:46am |
L4Y Member
Post 66 / 102
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We should be able to click on APC, or JEEP, or object or weapon object in Red and up pops the object properties window for it along with "ADVANCED SETTINGS" tab beside it. Click on that and all the table property flags and settings come up for editing that vehicle or object or item or weapon, ect.
The advanced settings of Red are cut off from the main editor and locked away in table files. Someone needs to write a program to unlock all the table file settings and intergrate them with the editor when we click on things.
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Modified Sep 21st, 08:04am by topspins |
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| RF Grim Reaper |
Posted 21st Sep 2005 7:26pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 374 / 902
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That's just the way RF is, get used to it 
If you ever did / could edit the tables via RED then the level you were making would have to be run as a mod anyway. It's not exactly hard to open a table file ( 7 clicks - if you double click to open files ) |
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| topspins |
Posted 21st Sep 2005 9:57pm |
L4Y Member
Post 67 / 102
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No, I would rather have a interface I can see settings with rather than to scroll through pages of endless text in table files. Then if you mess up somthing then you can just press a button and it will reset the table files back to their original settings. |
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| Trigger |
Posted 21st Sep 2005 10:02pm |
L4Y Member
Post 188 / 385
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| Quoting topspins | | scroll through pages of endless text in table files |
Make sure you have Volitions tbl viewer installed. It has a tbl structure panel where you can quickly navigate the tbl files. |
| If I ever get to where I am going, will I know when I am there? |
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| RF Grim Reaper |
Posted 21st Sep 2005 10:31pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 376 / 902
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I was just going to say that
I only realised today that V made the thing lol |
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| RED-FROG |
Posted 21st Sep 2005 11:26pm | |
L4Y Resident
Post 568 / 5258
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This game is old.
Realistic physics are new to games.
Something's wrong with that thread
Sometimes RF has suprised me with it's *cough* physics *cough*
Remember what happens when you blow up a large house...or walls.
The brushes...yes brushes SPLIT UP in pierces and fall down, even collide each other and the ground.
Every modern game uses at least ragdoll physics now which I really like. Only by adding this feature Red Faction would become much better, and more realistic!
Playing around with physcis is really fun..FarCry has awesome phyics  . I guess HalfLife2s are even better.
Damn I wan't to play this game! |
| ¤ MARS WARS 3! - Red Faction revamped on the unreal engine. Superiority ¤ |
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| Vidi44 |
Posted 22nd Sep 2005 12:52am |
L4Y Member
Post 243 / 668
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RF is almost 5 years old (or 4?), don't expect the best of modern gaming. When RF was made, Geo-mod was a major breakthrough. Now, its pretty standard on high-end games. Before RF, an editor to create levels was unheard of, now a lot of games have them. You have to realize that RF was a major breakthrough in gaming for its time. Back then, they were pushing the limits (they had to design for slow computers, remember? Now we don't have such problems (well, we don't care anymore)).
If it makes you feel better, MS is developing RF3, although with MS doing it, it might be worse than RF2. Imagine you're in the middle of a battle, and all of a sudden: Rundll32 error, runtime error! nooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!.
If you'd like to tie in the table files and RED, hire yourself a very competant C++ programmer (I can recommend a few, but they work mostly in teams and for a good lot of money, the size of which makes corporations wince in pain), and they just make a small add-on mod to RED to tie them in. Keep in mind that this wouldn't do what you desire, as that's pretty impossible. Realize that modding has a lot of variables in it, as the entire thing is custom-made. If there were preset settings, that'd be part of the game, and eventually you'd get tired of it.
Until you do that, you'll have to accept it. So, I'd suggest you learn C++ and get some of your friends to learn it (we can never have enough C++ programmers out there anyway). If C++ is too difficult (which it really is), C is better, with a cleaner syntax and the option of using a form if need be. Yes, I realize that the last few paragraphs are sarcastic, and may be offensive, however we've said this over and over: RED has its limits, that's it. If they didn't program limits, low-level computers couldn't run RF. Its simply the result of trying to make it so everyone can play, not just people with (then) supercomputers. As far as the recommendation to learn C++, there are some good tutorials out there, but keep in mind that C++ is the professional's language, and shouldn't be your first (which is where my signature "Don't go there, its ugly and it never stops being ugly" comes from (someone's reply in a forum about starting off with C++)). |
"Don't go there. It's ugly, and it never stops being ugly."
"Naps are good" - Visual C++.NET for Dummies, page 1 |
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| Predalienator |
Posted 22nd Sep 2005 1:03am |
Welcome!
Post 626 / 1
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Yes RF is revolutionary for its time and still surprises me. |
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Lace  |
Posted 22nd Sep 2005 8:26am |
Post 467 / 1216
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| Quoting Vidi44 | | Before RF, an editor to create levels was unheard of |
You could make levels for games long before RF was released.
| Quoting Vidi44 | | MS is developing RF3 |
No one is working on RF 3, and specially not MS. THQ is the owner of the title, and they are not doing anything for the game.
RED has it's limits and it will never change. It is old and buggy, and you will have to live with it if you want to make maps for RF. Besides, RF and RED were designed for P3 processors and Win 98 together with low end graphic cards, and were never made for handling the power of the new computers we have now. |
| A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. |
Modified Sep 22nd, 09:35am by Lace |
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| topspins |
Posted 22nd Sep 2005 12:01pm |
L4Y Member
Post 71 / 102
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Yes, unfortunate, that's why the maps are small in the game but this kind of slackness in development and production of the game and its editor shouldn't even exist at the professional level. The whole thing looks like it was rushed. |
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| Lace |
Posted 22nd Sep 2005 12:18pm |
Post 468 / 1216
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Red Faction never was a major hit as a game, and was dumped by THQ years ago. Far as I know, they didn't use RED to make the default levels. It was released so people could make their own maps, and wasn't meant as a professional tool. The best advice is to have fun with it as long as it lasts, then move on to games with better editors that are capable of making what you want. |
| A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. |
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| FuryThor |
Posted 22nd Sep 2005 12:29pm |
L4Y Member
Post 175 / 831
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I agree that RF has been pushed to its limits recently as new computers have far more power than RED understands.
Also there are several serious crashing bugs that are annoing.
it would be great benefit for RF community if RF1 source would be released under tight license that prevents commercial use of red engine.
Also if it would be possible i would hardly upgrade rf engine to match todays requirements but still try to keep it optimized. |
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