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| Red Faction : [RED] Editing : Expert advice - Optimization |
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| Morgoth |
  Posted 20th Jun 2005 8:53pm |
L4Y Member
Post 4 / 393
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Hi 
About Lag and stability...
I do this post to customize my Xmod, because i have a lot of thing in a level. I realy need to have the best methode for each simple thing. Also for those who care to build clean map, plz comment and share what you think, thx! The mind of others people are always interesting  ...
1- Making good use of Group can help about lag or stability?
like: enter in a "room" (color in RED) have just to load one building and one tree Group.
2- Detail brush always help?
3- Is better always put air brush as portal?
4- Is always better put Geo location than enable in Level properties? (also when most part of the level have geo?)
5- RF dont like to split in-game geo on more complex brush... Is always better build with more brush with invisible texture inside, than build just one brush with more edge in? Like a low brush shape range 10 to 20 face...
Other little question:
Can portal increase the lag sometime? Exemple; when you turn (a portal) corner and the engin have to load too many (room, brush, texture, mover, etc.) at the same time? Few time, better not put portal?
Is you have advance technique to portal wierd location, or just other optimisation, tell us too 
Thx alot for all constructive reply!!!  |
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| ExoStatic |
Posted 20th Jun 2005 9:01pm |
L4Y Member
Post 170 / 875
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Well, your English language is not very easily understood... so Iccan only answer like one question - the portals.
Portals are very good for reducing lag. As long as they're placed correctly. |
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| Morgoth |
Posted 20th Jun 2005 9:14pm |
L4Y Member
Post 5 / 393
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Mmm k  Sorry
I dont know, if you know the term of RED editor, or my english realy need a upgrade!!  lol
But thx for the reply... |
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| SKA-Diesel |
Posted 20th Jun 2005 9:21pm |
L4Y Member
Post 258 / 719
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| Quoting Morgoth | | 1-Making good use of Group can help about lag or stability? |
Not that I know of... the main use of groups is for key-frames, and exporting geometry to other levels.
| Quoting Morgoth | | 2- Detail brush always help? |
Detail brushes help to load a level faster, as they dont have any boolean (cut/carve)effect on the non-detail brushes.
But they are always rendered by the game engine, so if you portal an area, any detail brushes will still be rendered even if your not in the same portalled section.
| Quoting Morgoth | | 3- Is better always put air brush as portal? |
NO, only use face brushes.
| Quoting Morgoth | | 4- Is always better put Geo location than enable in Level properties? |
Either way is fine.
| Quoting Morgoth | | 5- RF dont like to split in-game geo on more complex brush... Is always better build with more brush with invisible texture inside, than build just one brush with more edge in? Like a low brush shape range 10 to 20 face... |
Eh?
| Quoting Morgoth | | Can portal increase the lag sometime? Exemple; when you turn (a portal) corner and the engin have to load too many (room, brush, texture, mover, etc.) at the same time? Few time, better not put portal? |
No, the more portals the better. RF renders the room you are in plus all rooms touching the room you are in... sometimes there is lag, but if there were no portals you would probably experience more lag. |
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Modified Jun 20th, 09:22pm by SKA-Diesel |
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| Morgoth |
Posted 20th Jun 2005 10:19pm |
L4Y Member
Post 6 / 393
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First, thx you SKA-Diesel for your clean reply
Explanation for question #5:
| Quoting Morgoth | | 5- RF dont like to split in-game geo on more complex brush... Is always better build with more brush with invisible texture inside, than build just one brush with more edge in? Like a low brush shape range 10 to 20 face... |
I had read about complex brush in a Red help, and it said is better use more simple brush than 1 split brush to make your shape. I tested the Geo on a complex brush and the game crash more faster because the Geo do more cut on it. (engin crash after 10,000 face) Im not very sure, but with more complex brush, the designer need to build is level with a lower face count (like max 5,200/10,000). Is what i needed to succesfuly modified a Geo version of "DM_Holy_Blood" to not crash in-game. "I also remove many brushwork bugs!! lol anyway!" (I did this just for fun and to test RED Geo in a map with complex brush... note that this map will not be in the Community pack of my Xmod). I also did a "geo_test_room" with simple brush, and i can go further, like 9,500 face. Sorry if is long
About your answer for portal:
| Quoting SKA-Diesel | | No, the more portals the better. |
Can i have more explanation or exemple? It is good, if i put all windows and doors or other location portal, even if is not correctly everywhere the player is? Because, if is not correct a one spot, the player can also move to another place, and after is travel the portal is work after no? |   lol
Thx again! Others opinions are welcome |
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| mad_ferrit |
Posted 21st Jun 2005 2:06am |
L4Y Member
Post 650 / 1510
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| Quoting Morgoth | | I had read about complex brush in a Red help, and it said is better use more simple brush than 1 split brush to make your shape. I tested the Geo on a complex brush and the game crash more faster because the Geo do more cut on it. (engin crash after 10,000 face) Im not very sure, but with more complex brush, the designer need to build is level with a lower face count (like max 5,200/10,000). Is what i needed to succesfuly modified a Geo version of "DM_Holy_Blood" to not crash in-game. "I also remove many brushwork bugs!! lol anyway!" (I did this just for fun and to test RED Geo in a map with complex brush... note that this map will not be in the Community pack of my Xmod). I also did a "geo_test_room" with simple brush, and i can go further, like 9,500 face. Sorry if is long |
I think this depends on a couple of things. Firstly I think you are correct in what you say about complex brushes, but only if they are World Brushes. I.E. Don't go making your level brush over complicated, making an entire indoor level purely with extrusion and bevelling of faces is probably not the best plan. Kep your main leel boxes pretty simple.
But tying this into your Question 2 re: detail brushes), I quite like making things form one brush using the bevel function in face mode and other tricks in face and vertex modes. But if I've dreated a fairly complex structure then it's almost certainly going to be converted into a detail brush.
Re: Portals
It all depends on the type of map you have made as to how you portal it. An indoor corridor and room map can be easily portalled, and as a general rule; If you cannot see room B from room A, then add a portal solid face brush disecting the corridor that adjoins them. This means that when you are standing in one of the afformentionned rooms, the other will not be rendered.
If used incorrectly, portals can cause some major problems. This usually occours where portals are placed in geo spots and keyframed doors, where you can see directly through 2 portals at once... in my experience  |
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| Morgoth |
Posted 21st Jun 2005 2:53am |
L4Y Member
Post 7 / 393
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About portal problem with keyframed doors (mover)
| Quoting mad_ferrit | | If used incorrectly, portals can cause some major problems. This usually occours where portals are placed in geo spots and keyframed doors, where you can see directly through 2 portals at once... in my experience |
I see Volition technique in their map, they put doors between 2 portals, i think when it's close you just load your side.
Did you experience some wierd lag with portal mad_ferrit?
| Quoting Morgoth | | Can portal increase the lag sometime? Exemple; when you turn (a portal) corner and the engin have to load too many (room, brush, texture, mover, etc.) at the same time? Few time, better not put portal? |
Thx for goOd reply |
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| mad_ferrit |
Posted 21st Jun 2005 11:16am |
L4Y Member
Post 654 / 1510
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| Quoting Morgoth | | Did you experience some wierd lag with portal mad_ferrit? |
Not lag as such, but sometimes if they are placed incorrectly, like lets say there are 2 keyframed doors facing eachother and each have a fsce brush portal covering the door... Sometimes, not always, but sometimes if both doors are open you will see the skybox when you look into the second portalled area  |
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| Morgoth |
Posted 21st Jun 2005 4:04pm |
L4Y Member
Post 8 / 393
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Thx you reply again...
The problem is my map is outdoors with skybox, mover, complex trigger system, and .... Geo! I realy need to fix all things goOd!! Skybox certainly increase the lag bad I will do some test to build a fake skybox, my idea test; put the level in a standard air detail brush and put solid face brush for each side with 1 keyframe to set "no collide" (leave some space between air and solid)... Anyway, it is supposed to be less consuming? If you have goOd methode to portal outdoors environnement or all more advance technique, you are welcome!
| Quoting Morgoth in Xmod news | About the 1st Xmod map:
*CTF-X01 ~ Safety Flag
The basic goal is to hack the control room to open a giant safety to get the flag. The big safety have a room in the center, where you can desable the forcefield protection around the flag on top of this room. You can be traped in and evade it by few way. Each team have more control over trigger in there base, like; the safety/doors/special like a gas defence in the control room. Because the opposite team can hold the enemy control room to access trigger they cant normaly activate, like; doors and the elevator in the safety to get out of it. |
Need more people here! Where are others freak? lol... |
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| mad_ferrit |
Posted 21st Jun 2005 4:23pm |
L4Y Member
Post 656 / 1510
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| Quoting Morgoth | | I will do some test to build a fake skybox, my idea test; put the level in a standard air detail brush and put solid face brush for each side with 1 keyframe to set "no collide" (leave some space between air and solid)... Anyway, it is supposed to be less consuming? |
Build a skybox the usual way, with a small room outside your level box with a sky room effect in it.
I think your idea of the fake skybox is not worth even trying, it will be more costly in terms of performance.
As far as portalling large outdoor maps, try to split the level brush into 3 equal parts by disecting it with 2 massive solid face brush portals. It probably won't help much with performance in-game because the portals aren't really working properly, but they will certainly speed things up in the editor. Just be careful where you place them and eliminate any holes that they might create.
Also check that none of your level disappears when you walk through one in-game, keep testing until you're happy they aren't casuing any problems. Also make them really big so that they really overlap your level brusah by quite a long way. This should prevent people geo-ing down and causing glitches.
If you're having trouble adding 2 portals or more then just try one large one, that disects your map straight down the middle. Again check for glitches in game.
Any indoor areas can be portalled, make sure that when you are in a portalled are like that, perhaps looking out of the window through any other portalled areas that you don't see the skybox effect.
Use View >>Render Rooms in different colours, to make sure that each portalled are has it's own colour and that the portals are working |
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| Morgoth |
Posted 22nd Jun 2005 3:27am |
L4Y Member
Post 9 / 393
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Even if i already know what you say, thx for the big text and how you describe your workstep with RED. And ok,... i will not test the fake skybox
I note your tips about bigger portal for Geo, but i have a question. If the hole hall is geo, im sure i will have glitche?
About the portal efficacity in-game, your are realy sure, or they are just missundertood by people?
| Quoting mad_ferrit | | It probably won't help much with performance in-game because the portals aren't really working properly, but they will certainly speed things up in the editor. |
Oh, ... and i don't build map with hole
Thx again to keep this topic alive |
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| mad_ferrit |
Posted 22nd Jun 2005 8:46am |
L4Y Member
Post 660 / 1510
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| Quoting Morgoth | | About the portal efficacity in-game, your are realy sure, or they are just missundertood by people? |
Portals do work in-game. But if you can see directly into the adjacent portalled area then that portal is not "working" to hide that zone and help increase performance in-game.
I am undecided on whether large portals splitting huge open areas have any real effect in-game All I know is that it allows you to build more without crashing the editor  Portals work best in maps that are a series of indoor corridors and rooms. |
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