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| Red Faction : Lounge : trying to sort out a rumer... |
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| DARTH JOKER |
  Posted 2nd Mar 2007 3:51am |
L4Y Member
Post 249 / 467
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maby i was dreaming buti could sworn i saw a topic this week labed "RF sorce might be avalible" or somthing like that. can some please confirm or debunk this for me. |
| DA WICKED KLOWN PRINCE OF DA SITH |
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| Tech_N9ne |
Posted 2nd Mar 2007 6:04am |
L4Y Member
Post 139 / 163
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Darth, I regret to inform you, its not gonna happen.
Many people have asked, all have been denied...
...Businesses dont make money from giving their software away for free 
I want the source just as bad as the next person(except maybe goober or slitz)  but from a business stand point, I just dont see it happening. |
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| FuryThor |
Posted 2nd Mar 2007 7:44am |
L4Y Member
Post 660 / 831
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| Quoting Tech_N9ne | Darth, I regret to inform you, its not gonna happen.
Many people have asked, all have been denied...
...Businesses dont make money from giving their software away for free
I want the source just as bad as the next person(except maybe goober or slitz) but from a business stand point, I just dont see it happening. |
I disagree with your point of view in regard of business making money. Volition has earlier released Source of FS2 and not just volition has released sources, other companies have done that as well, however I could quess that Volition does not want geo-mod to be plagiarized instantly they release so they propably try to figure howto prevent using geo-mod technology in other games than RF...
However what comes to that source code it self, not many will be able to benefit from it because it is writen in c++ and it is not easy to modify it, let alone to be understood.
On other hand, I know I could benefit from it since I know quite few developers who propably would be willing to help on such events as some of them are also RF fans 
So only way I see that RF source might come available is that volition sees that there is enough skilled modification creators for RF and they benefit if one group can start to improve RF engine in way they did not have time to. And that can even lead to own new game...
So I would say that rumor of RF source code being released will fly around for LONG TIME, however there is no reason to belive that volition would never release their source code, if there is not some selfish SOB company preventing that ... owner of renderware engine...
So here was my minor bleeding about case. |
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| goober |
Posted 2nd Mar 2007 12:01pm |  |
L4Y Member
Post 4700 / 265
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*cough*THQ*cough*
I know a little C++, but i would learn more. How do you know it is absoulutly written in C++? It could be C, C, or Delphi for all we know... |
For anyone reading this in 2019 or later: The RF community is alive on the Community Discord
[Faction Files] |
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| FuryThor |
Posted 2nd Mar 2007 3:41pm |
L4Y Member
Post 663 / 831
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| Quoting goober | | *cough*THQ*cough* |
Not everything is THQs fault
| Quoting en.wikipedia.org | RenderWare is a 3D API and graphics rendering engine used in computer games, Active Worlds, and some VRML browsers. RW is developed by Criterion Software (which used to be a wholly owned subsidiary of Canon but is now owned by Electronic Arts).
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So there is little even THQ can do IF EA is denying release of RF's source code because it was developed with Renderware engine.
If this would be the case, then RF would not be the first game that EA has tackled down, not the last one. This because EA has alwyas favored their own "brands" and those brands they have got on purchase they have treated real bad, unless it has bee very popular. So thin this case I would advice strongly to boycott EA for its actions. However there is no proof on this so, we can't keep them quilty.
And what comes to business, it seems that only few here have ever talked to pepole who really work on game industry, so their knowledge seems to be limited...
As I have said before rumor of release of RF source code will fly long time around, and won't be easily taken down.
I just hope that source code is released someday soon.
meanwhile, we just got to keep preasure on developer to give them reason why they should consider release of source code. THE high quality mods that are taking RF to limits. |
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| DARTH JOKER |
Posted 2nd Mar 2007 5:16pm |
L4Y Member
Post 251 / 467
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First i never stated that it was going to be relesed.
Second i found i imaganary topic http://redfaction.levels4you.com/forum.l4y?do=view&t=166752
i sware that it was not in the forums yesterday, maby it was a server glitch
Third i beleave that DMM (Digital Molecular Matter) if does as promised will replace Geo mode, there for making geo mode opsoleat. which in thery would give thq, EA,, violution no reasion not to release the sorce code for the entire RF series... yes im even ecluding the next Geo mode title which might not be RF3 (DARTH JOKER VS THE JOKER)
If you do not know what DMM is here are two links
linke one the developers home page http://www.pixeluxentertainment.com/
link two. a pre rendering developer video show DMM in action http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=42397 |
| DA WICKED KLOWN PRINCE OF DA SITH |
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| Vidi44 |
Posted 6th Mar 2007 12:01am |
L4Y Member
Post 604 / 668
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Currently downloading the video for DMM, so information may be out of date at submission.
Well, it certainly looks good. In fact, I've often wondered why no one ever did this before (create a graphics engine/renderer that can destroy things without being hard-coded into a game engine). Seems to me if I were going to make a good graphics engine, that'd be a must-have. Of course, doing so hurts your bottom-line, as once you've perfected it, you'd be done with the majority of engine development (after that, it'd just be support for newer chipsets and some but fixes. Hardly enough to realistically require a new license to be purchased).
In fact, the majority of our problems (as those interested in developing games using some professional-level SDKs and modified game engines) lies in the industry's unwillingness to release some source code. Id Software is famous for releasing the Quake engine 5 years after its initial release. Unfortunately, most other developers aren't like this and like to somewhat stifle development by licensing their engines (as though your small-time coder could afford the 3.75 million (in USD) for the Warcraft III engine (aye, an extreme example), or even the 10 thousand (or so) Unreal costs to license).
I haven't a problem with keeping newer game engines proprietary. What bothers me is that the Unreal engine (nice engine that it is) is still proprietary, as is the Geomod engine (it's been almost 6 years. Surely whatever use it has today is offset by the massive need to update it just so people will accept it (in the way of graphics, vehicular combat and physics)). The Geomod engine should be at least licensed. I'm sure that among the hundreds of people that want access to it, why couldn't we band together to get the fundage to pay them some money (say, 5k) to get a (say 5 year) license of the game engine? Of course, before we do this, it'd probably be best if we'd all know what language it's in and how to actually program in it (so far, there's maybe 5 of us with the skills necessary just to read it, much less fully understand it). There's more to a game engine than just knowing what language it's in. Often game engines utilize several different languages for different features. Further, we'd have to know if it has any specialized scripting language attached to it (useless to know the source if part of it is scripted in a proprietary language). Finally, we'd have to know how to interface with the API, port it to various systems (often some severe code re-writes are necessary), etc.
So, after my little rant, I'm forced to agree with goober (will the world end now?) in that it's mostly THQ's fault. A game engine that's almost 6 years old certainly has very little in the way of commercial use. They'd have to seriously upgrade the engine for it to even begin to compete with the Unreal engine or even the Darkplaces engine (last I remember, RF doesn't have bump mapping or per-pixel shading). THQ's just hurting themselves by not releasing even part of the source (as I said countless times before, they could at least license it), as independant developers could do more for them in a year than a league of their (cough*fool*cough) programmers (if only because we do it out of love for the game, not for the money).
Finished downloading the video. Looks rather generic to me, all the walls exploded in the same way. In fact, it looks similar to how some web game I played (Gravityball or something like that) destroyed objects. The only benefit here is that it would be highly portable. Otherwise, it's not particularly worth the (cough*cheap*cough) manner in which objects are destroyed (particularly the one wall, which had a fragment literally bounce around like a basketball for over 5 seconds. No particle in reality will bounce as high and for as long as it did. Second, particles don't all look like roughly triangular shapes when they break. Arg!!!!). |
"Don't go there. It's ugly, and it never stops being ugly."
"Naps are good" - Visual C++.NET for Dummies, page 1 |
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| DARTH JOKER |
Posted 6th Mar 2007 1:01am |
L4Y Member
Post 269 / 467
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| Quoting Vidi44 | Currently downloading the video for DMM, so information may be out of date at submission.
Finished downloading the video. Looks rather generic to me, all the walls exploded in the same way. In fact, it looks similar to how some web game I played (Gravityball or something like that) destroyed objects. The only benefit here is that it would be highly portable. Otherwise, it's not particularly worth the (cough*cheap*cough) manner in which objects are destroyed (particularly the one wall, which had a fragment literally bounce around like a basketball for over 5 seconds. No particle in reality will bounce as high and for as long as it did. Second, particles don't all look like roughly triangular shapes when they break. Arg!!!!). |
you right your information is out dated, just like like first video the second video (which you can't download  ) is much better (it's seven or eight minutes long). wood that actuly splinters which of corse you and then use at projectil weapons with forse push (thay do not show you that in this video but beleave me you can) and then there is the frozen JAR JAR (i know you'll want to watch it now) |
| DA WICKED KLOWN PRINCE OF DA SITH |
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| Vidi44 |
Posted 7th Mar 2007 12:34am |
L4Y Member
Post 605 / 668
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Is it the link you posted in your last post? I gave up on that after it took too long (I'm on dialup and can only be so patient. I'll have to wait a week until school gets back in to hijack... err use... their DSL).
Yes, if it as good as you say it is, I do want to see it. |
"Don't go there. It's ugly, and it never stops being ugly."
"Naps are good" - Visual C++.NET for Dummies, page 1 |
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| DARTH JOKER |
Posted 7th Mar 2007 1:33am |
L4Y Member
Post 273 / 467
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| Quoting Vidi44 | Is it the link you posted in your last post? I gave up on that after it took too long (I'm on dialup and can only be so patient. I'll have to wait a week until school gets back in to hijack... err use... their DSL).
Yes, if it as good as you say it is, I do want to see it. |
yes, the second video in the othe likn in my prevous post. i now it's not dial up frendly eather. if only it was on another web site so it could be download. stupid streming non-dowloading fools |
| DA WICKED KLOWN PRINCE OF DA SITH |
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