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| Red Faction : [RED] Editing : Portal Mysteries |
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| Hapa Hanu |
  Posted 24th Nov 2006 7:53pm |
Mac Maniac
L4Y Member
Post 409 / 1544
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Portals. Tools for making maps frame rate friendly. That is a good thing.
But I am confused about them.
It was my understanding that when two portals are placed in such a way that a player in game can look thru two of them that the solids between them and beyond become invisible.
However, for the first time in my life I actually opened up a map that someone else had made. I took a look at dm01. In the helical corridors that form the outer perimeter of the map there are lots of portals which are all lined up - and yet the solids do not become invisible.
Wot is going on here? |
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| RED_JUSTICE |
Posted 24th Nov 2006 8:06pm |
L4Y Member
Post 353 / 486
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Like many things in RED, it's trial and error. As a general rule, having portals face each other causes visual problems....except when it doesn't. 
Through trial and error I've discovered that if I make the portals big enough (ex. larger than the main brush) I can have as many as I want without causing visual problems but they will sometimes cause hole problems. So, in many of my maps if you open them up you'll see several HUGE portals bisecting the maps into sections. They all face each other but because they are so large, it gets around the portal facing problem.
RED is a glitchy little program...this is just one of its glitches. |
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| mad_ferrit |
Posted 24th Nov 2006 8:12pm |
L4Y Member
Post 1419 / 1510
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| Quoting RED_JUSTICE | | So, in many of my maps if you open them up you'll see several HUGE portals bisecting the maps into sections. They all face each other but because they are so large, it gets around the portal facing problem. |
This is somthing we all do... however, if it is not hiding what is behind it then it's not actually doing anything at all and is a pretty pointless exercise.
I'd love to know how the RF engine works precisely when it comes to portals. In the Source engine you split areas up in a very similar way, ie. put portals at every door and window. This creates "rooms" (or vis leafs) and on compiling, the engine works out which "rooms" can potentially see eachother. If you can't see room A from room B then it will not render it. It's as simple as that.
Is there a way of playing RF in wireframe mode? If there is then we could work out how the game engine worked when it comes to portalling  |
 MY RF MAPS |
Modified Nov 24th, 08:17pm by mad_ferrit |
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| goober |
Posted 25th Nov 2006 12:50am |  |
L4Y Member
Post 4189 / 265
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mad_ferrit, i think thats how RED works. Make a room with 3 portals in it and a hallway then use semi transparent textures. You wont see it |
For anyone reading this in 2019 or later: The RF community is alive on the Community Discord
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| Ninja~ |
Posted 25th Nov 2006 5:29am |
L4Y Member
Post 350 / 644
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| Quoting Hapa Hanu | | It was my understanding that when two portals are placed in such a way that a player in game can look thru two of them that the solids between them and beyond become invisible. |
Lets use this quick pic as a guide..
The Red dot is the player and the Red line is the direction the player is looking.
The Yellow lines are portals.
So the player is looking through 2 portals... And My beleif is that It's not what is between the 2 portals that disappears... It's whatever's after the 2nd portal that disappears. 
And the other thing is a strange bug rather than it just disappearing.. Also known as the "Hall of Mirrors".
That's just talking from my experience..
Skybox and Fog are also another bad combination.. You CAN do it, But you just have to do it RIGHT. |
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Modified Nov 25th, 05:32am by Ninja~ |
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Assaultman67  |
Posted 25th Nov 2006 6:46am | |
Post 1744 / 4376
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| Quoting Ninja~ | | Quoting Hapa Hanu | | It was my understanding that when two portals are placed in such a way that a player in game can look thru two of them that the solids between them and beyond become invisible. |
Lets use this quick pic as a guide..
The Red dot is the player and the Red line is the direction the player is looking.
The Yellow lines are portals.
So the player is looking through 2 portals... And My beleif is that It's not what is between the 2 portals that disappears... It's whatever's after the 2nd portal that disappears.
And the other thing is a strange bug rather than it just disappearing.. Also known as the "Hall of Mirrors".
That's just talking from my experience..
Skybox and Fog are also another bad combination.. You CAN do it, But you just have to do it RIGHT. |
no one is arguing that they can't see through the 1st portal ... they are arguing that they can sometimes see through the 2nd portal and sometimes they can't ... amd most of all, they are trying to figure out why.
i know for a fact that you can sometimes line up two portals and look through them both ... but it doesn't always work ... sometimes you see nothing but skybox or some other weird effect ... |
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Modified Nov 25th, 06:48am by Assaultman67 |
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NoClanFrank  |
Posted 25th Nov 2006 7:15am | |
Post 3253 / 5840
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Then again you have REDFROG's world of cubes level that has two portals crossing each other and yet no hall of mirror effect...from what I read on another way way previous post. |
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| Ninja~ |
Posted 25th Nov 2006 7:50am |
L4Y Member
Post 351 / 644
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| Quoting Assaultman67 | no one is arguing that they can't see through the 1st portal ... they are arguing that they can sometimes see through the 2nd portal and sometimes they can't ... amd most of all, they are trying to figure out why.
i know for a fact that you can sometimes line up two portals and look through them both ... but it doesn't always work ... sometimes you see nothing but skybox or some other weird effect ... |
The name of the topic is 'Portal Mysteries' meaning they are arguing about portal related information.
Nobody seems to have an answer, But yet why is it such a big thing to know?
So you're saying that looking through 2 portals CAN work... Well I know.. But also alot of times it CANT.
And if you had read the quote -
| Quoting Hapa Hanu | | It was my understanding that when two portals are placed in such a way that a player in game can look thru two of them that the solids between them and beyond become invisible. |
Hapa said the area between the two portals was where the bug appears.. I was just sharing my own experience and stated that I was alot more familar with the problems occuring not between.. But After the 2nd portal.
| Quoting NoClanFrank | | Then again you have REDFROG's world of cubes level that has two portals crossing each other and yet no hall of mirror effect...from what I read on another way way previous post. |
I have created a map with crossed portals aswell.. And It worked successfully.
DM 4Lords.. It's a DM remake of CTF Warlords.. It includes 4 buildings this time instead ofd 2, and no tunnels or bridges.. Also with jump pads on the roof for high jumps. |
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Modified Nov 25th, 07:52am by Ninja~ |
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| mad_ferrit |
Posted 25th Nov 2006 11:07am |
L4Y Member
Post 1420 / 1510
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| Quoting NoClanFrank | | Then again you have REDFROG's world of cubes level that has two portals crossing each other and yet no hall of mirror effect...from what I read on another way way previous post. |
Now the only help I think that will have been is actually in the editor itself, allowing him to build more. But in-game, because you can see straight through them and they are not hiding anything then they are almost useless.
Now I just tried this with no skybox or hall of mirrors problems...
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| MY RF MAPS |
Modified Nov 25th, 11:20am by mad_ferrit |
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| Spikey2005 |
Posted 26th Nov 2006 2:12am | |
L4Y Member
Post 361 / 2126
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In many of my maps, i try to avoid placing portal faces in them, due to this bug everyone is talking about. Ive hardly ever had to use them. but if I did, would it be a good thing?
P.S. never use a psp to type all this! lol. |
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| Hapa Hanu |
Posted 26th Nov 2006 4:52am |
Mac Maniac
L4Y Member
Post 411 / 1544
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Thanks everyone for your input. I think I understand a little bit more about these fickle portals.
| Quoting hapa hanu | | It was my understanding that when two portals are placed in such a way that a player in game can look thru two of them that the solids between them and beyond become invisible. |
There is a regrettable error in this hastily composed sentence. It should have been typed in as the following:
It was my understanding that when two portals are placed in such a way that a player in game can look thru two of them that the solids beyond the second portal become invisible.
Another thing that I noticed about dm01: the texture chosen for the portal faces = sld_admin_new01.tga.
Does the texture of the portal influence it's behaviour? |
| I have suffered in real life for the past couple years, now its your turn! |
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| goober |
Posted 26th Nov 2006 1:57pm | |
L4Y Member
Post 4196 / 265
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I always make my portals with rck_default because i just make a face, create brush and right there and then make it a portal.... |
For anyone reading this in 2019 or later: The RF community is alive on the Community Discord
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