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| Red Faction : [RED] Editing : Hmmm how do we overcome this ? |
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| topspins |
  Posted 18th Sep 2005 9:38am |
L4Y Member
Post 48 / 102
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How do I get a square air brush (door passageway) to make a square cut inside the wall of a air cylinder brush which happens to be a large fuel pipe. This is like putting square pegs in round holes.
I keep getting a round circular ripped opening instead of getting a nice neat square opening when I build the two brushes together or can that not be avoided in Red when dealing with cylinder brushes?
The other thing is BENDS. Red sends people around the bend with it's annoying bugs and imperfections. BEND is one of them. Much like the fuse, Red can't seem to do the same bend operation on the same brush more than once without screwing up it's own calculations when it tries to put in another bend in the same brush.
I wanted a large fuel pipeline systen with quite a few turns and bends in the pipe. I tried doing it with the same brush using just extrude here and there and splits to create the bends, but after making the first bend, red started to go all haywire with the bending and throw the pipe way out of shape, gave me split ends, and torn holes in the pipe, ectm anything but a neat bend in the pipe... 
It seems that Red dosen't support multiple brush bends, It seems the only way to get what I want out of Red is to make 10 or more separate large cylinder brushes then add in the splits in each segment and then bend each brush, then snap each piece it to the grid, then join them all together and save as a group for the finished pipe system. 
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Modified Sep 18th, 11:04am by topspins |
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| snail_master |
Posted 18th Sep 2005 11:11am |
L4Y Member
Post 54 / 83
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square brush makes square holes for me. If you want more than one bend in a brush then you have to either vertex one long cylinder and make hand made curves or get lots of separate cylinders and use the bend function red provides |
| I knew there was a reason for my grotesque appearance |
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| topspins |
Posted 18th Sep 2005 11:37am |
L4Y Member
Post 54 / 102
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Yeah I'm afraid that's right, The bend function in red is very simple, so simple that it screws up its own maths when it tries to bend a cylinder more than once in different directions like in creating bendy pipes.
Now how do we texture pipes so they actually
LOOK like pipes, I know how to do the straight
pipes, but how do we correctly texture the bends
in the pipes? Tricky stuff. NOT explained by Red.
Please don't just say 'just use UV unwrap'. I really
need to know the steps of how to texture the bends in
pipes using that UV unwrap. |
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Modified Sep 18th, 11:53am by topspins |
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| Predalienator |
Posted 18th Sep 2005 12:08pm |
Welcome!
Post 570 / 1
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Apply map?  Who is A Scared User? |
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| mad_ferrit |
Posted 18th Sep 2005 12:14pm |
L4Y Member
Post 873 / 1510
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| Quoting topspins | | How do I get a square air brush (door passageway) to make a square cut inside the wall of a air cylinder brush which happens to be a large fuel pipe. This is like putting square pegs in round holes. |
I don't usderstand this question... If your cylinder is an air brush in solid matter then just place a square air brush next to it?! I don't see a problem with this...
For your next problem relating to bending and texturing pipes. Firstly STOP trying to make one long complicated pipe from extruding one brush. Just make one even 90 degree pipe and use it as the corner sections for your pipeline, and place them on it's route, cennected with straight cylinder pipes. It will be a lot easier.
Now texturing the bend in a pipe is not easy.  You can do as Pred said and Apply map but it will not go round the pipe anymore.
Sp, you can either try and painstakingly UV unwrap each section of the pipe or you can texture the pipe first and then bend it.
Now this is not ideal and I would never ever recommend using any form of vertex manipulation after texturing because it will leave you with wobbly texturing, so never ever do this. 
But having said that it may be your best option depending on the type of pipe. If it just a bit of detail running through your map, and quite small then it could be your answer.
If it's a large pipe that you walk through then I'd suggest simply going for a simpler tiling texture 
In the pic below I applied map with the texture to the straight pipe, and then simply bent the pipe in brush mode. Now when you zoom in and out of it you will see some wobbling, but if you want the effect of the pipe texture to go round it like it does then it's the eaiest way to do. Otherwise be prepared for some serious work in UV Unwrap 
Edit: Actually... some pipe textures do not wobble too badly... try to avoid the one's with the lines going accross them, and always select the textures and check one of the smoothing groups in their properties once you are happy with the way it looks Emit's Steam in the brush's properties is a nice effect too.
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 MY RF MAPS |
Modified Sep 18th, 12:34pm by mad_ferrit |
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| Molodiets |
Posted 18th Sep 2005 3:50pm |
L4Y Member
Post 718 / 2687
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| Quoting topspins | How do I get a square air brush (door passageway) to make a square cut inside the wall of a air cylinder brush which happens to be a large fuel pipe. This is like putting square pegs in round holes.
I keep getting a round circular ripped opening instead of getting a nice neat square opening when I build the two brushes together or can that not be avoided in Red when dealing with cylinder brushes?
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You can't expect an air brush to make a hole in an air brush. If you want an exit from a pipe, the pipe must be a solid cylindrical brush hollowed by a smaller air cylindrical brush. The exit can be an even smaller square air brush cut inside your solid brush. You can also try messing with the end of time/start of time buttons.
I must admit i don't really understand the question as well. |
| spoilsport |
Modified Sep 18th, 03:51pm by Molodiets |
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| adambehrend |
Posted 19th Sep 2005 5:00am |
L4Y Member
Post 66 / 97
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I dont generally use the Built-in tools such as Bend / Twist..
I do it all in Vertex mode.. its all the same |
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| topspins |
Posted 19th Sep 2005 8:27am |
L4Y Member
Post 56 / 102
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Ok Mad ferrit here is what I tried to do...
Instead of placing the square brush at the end of the cylinder...
------------| X
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I placed the square brush in the side of the cylinder.
X
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I'm just a bit slow tonight...I will have to place square exits at the end of the cylinder.
And about the pipes, yes separate sections of the pipeline have to be built then bent, only way to do it, can't do it on the one brush as you say.
As for texturing, I figured as much it would be painstaking job to try to do it for large pipes and try to get all the lighting right as well to blend those textures in. However in Red Faction in the missile launch command center they have a series of red and blue pipes running through part of the map (Solid brushes though), they textured the bends in the pipe well, I don't know how they pulled it off though. It was on small pipes.
I've made the map so soon as you starting shooting inside the fuel pipe where the fuel is, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom through the pipeline and take out a few guards if you're lucky, I used vclip event for the explosions.
I have done the maps, (single player) they look a little blocky though and I am starting to seal off parts of the map so you have to search the map to unlock parts of it instead of just being one straight easy walkthrough, but I also need to add in cutscenes and get a storyline, cause I have no storyline at the moment !
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| mad_ferrit |
Posted 19th Sep 2005 8:48am |
L4Y Member
Post 876 / 1510
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But as I said, some pipe textures will work ok if they are applied first before you bend the brush...
I still don't understand your problem as far as the square brush is concerned... just put the brush next to the cylinder...  |
| MY RF MAPS |
Modified Sep 19th, 09:34am by mad_ferrit |
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| topspins |
Posted 19th Sep 2005 10:19am |
L4Y Member
Post 58 / 102
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Yes, I encountered that problem on cylinder brushes and that is why I don't ever touch the vertexes anymore, Red just dosen't like uv wrapping the texture properly and causes the texture to buckle and bend and it looks AWFUL, it's like the brush is having multiple seizures when you walk around your map and see the textures
warping like fish eye camera effect.
But yes I agree, I think the texture has to be applied first on a straight brush, everything lined up (straight brushes are easy to line up textures on, before you go to bend it but RED HELP never mentioned it. BTW. How do we know we have the latest version of the RED HELP, for on the official download site, I see no version number is mentioned with the download offered of the helpfile to let me know if the help file is the latest version or not.
I've looked but I can't find the version number, what have
they done with it ?
In the Redhelp there's a internet link to their message forum to get answers from users who do red mapping...
Click.....
Server not found....
ARGGHH !
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Modified Sep 19th, 11:50am by topspins |
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| snail_master |
Posted 19th Sep 2005 11:33am |
L4Y Member
Post 57 / 83
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syorylines are optionaly, most people wont find out what it is anyway because of a bug which stops HUD persona messages being played in V1.2, no idea why, they work once then never again. so either write the story in a read me that goes with the level or tell everyone to run in on V1 (possibly v1.1 I never tried) |
| I knew there was a reason for my grotesque appearance |
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| topspins |
Posted 19th Sep 2005 11:37am |
L4Y Member
Post 61 / 102
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If it's one thing we find wrong or buggy with Red, we find another. Hud Personal messages (message_event) work on my version of Red Faction. (Don't know about Multiplayer though). |
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| mad_ferrit |
Posted 19th Sep 2005 1:13pm |
L4Y Member
Post 878 / 1510
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I've never even seen the RED Help file... yet alone read it
Maybe I should one day |
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| Predalienator |
Posted 19th Sep 2005 2:40pm |
Welcome!
Post 586 / 1
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Never read the RED help file? Thats how i learned to mdify stuff A.K.A my mutant that has fire coming out of its hand the machine gun sea creature and other wierd stuff like i put a miner with the baby reeper attack animation and looked at it in RED.It was well Doomish |
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| topspins |
Posted 19th Sep 2005 2:42pm |
L4Y Member
Post 62 / 102
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Here are my maps I'm working on.
http://www.angelfire.com/music6/bfgforehand |
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| mad_ferrit |
Posted 19th Sep 2005 3:55pm |
L4Y Member
Post 880 / 1510
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| Quoting topspins | Here are my maps I'm working on.
http://www.angelfire.com/music6/bfgforehand |
Some good looking work there fella |
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